ISEs3 Ep1: Scott Santucci Pt1 - Before the Sales Enablement Society

VoiceOverGuy: 00:00:02

Welcome to the Inside Sales Enablement Podcast.

2

: 00:00:06

Where has the profession been?

3

: 00:00:08

Where is it now?

4

: 00:00:10

And where is it heading?

5

: 00:00:12

What does it mean to you?

6

: 00:00:13

Your company?

7

: 00:00:14

Other functions?

8

: 00:00:16

The market?

9

: 00:00:17

Find out here.

10

: 00:00:20

The Inside Sales Enablement

Podcast starts now.

11

: 00:00:24

Erich Starrett: Man, is it good to hear

that intro music and voiceover guy again?

12

: 00:00:29

How about for y'all out

there in insider nation?

13

: 00:00:33

Hello and welcome to season

three of Inside Sales Enablement

14

: 00:00:38

focused on enablement history.

15

: 00:00:41

I'm Eric Starrett, and I started out

in the ISE audience listening to Sales

16

: 00:00:47

Enablement Society founding father,

Scott Santucci, and Trailblazer, Dr.

17

: 00:00:53

Brian Lambert.

18

: 00:00:54

And then collaborated with

them to build orchestratesales.

19

: 00:00:58

com the global home for the podcast

and related resources for sales

20

: 00:01:05

enablement orchestrators, including

sales enablement society history.

21

: 00:01:10

Why?

22

: 00:01:12

Well, the foundation of cross functional

enablement orchestration was established

23

: 00:01:18

in the three founding positions signed

into existence by the hundred ish fore

24

: 00:01:24

founders of the SES back in Palm Beach

in: 2016

25

: 00:01:31

the is the seven year anniversary.

26

: 00:01:34

So in celebration, after a few

years of hiatus, I'm knocking the

27

: 00:01:38

dust off of the orchestratesales.

28

: 00:01:41

com property.

29

: 00:01:42

As a sales enablement history nerd

with a passion for the continued

30

: 00:01:46

elevation of the profession, I see it

as the sales enablement Smithsonian

31

: 00:01:52

and an opportunity to serve you,

the global enablement community.

32

: 00:01:58

In revisiting the wisdom of the

treasures therein, as well as uncover

33

: 00:02:02

some new ones with a series of special

guests, which may even include you.

34

: 00:02:09

Today we begin ISE Season 3 with a

focus on BEFORE there was the SES,

35

: 00:02:16

and how it almost didn't even happen,

with special guest, Sales Enablement

36

: 00:02:20

Society founding father, Scott Santucci.

37

: 00:02:27

Scott, great to have you here.

38

: 00:02:29

, this Sunday marks the

seventh anniversary of the S.

39

: 00:02:32

E.

40

: 00:02:32

S.

41

: 00:02:33

The founders meeting what I'd like

to do with you today is hop in a time

42

: 00:02:36

machine and take a look back getting.

43

: 00:02:38

The straight shooting from the person

who was there from the beginning

44

: 00:02:42

and founded the global society.

45

: 00:02:45

By way of introduction, for those who

may not know, Scott Santucci was at

46

: 00:02:51

Forrester and was part of founding the

core operating group for sales enablement.

47

: 00:02:58

Scott, maybe we could start there and

just share a little bit about your

48

: 00:03:02

background pre sales enablement society.

49

: 00:03:05

Scott Santucci: Sure.

50

: 00:03:07

in 2008, I had my own business

called blueprint marketing.

51

: 00:03:15

One of the things that we built

were these sales work benches to

52

: 00:03:19

help take a lot of complex content

and allow salespeople to sort it.

53

: 00:03:24

To have very specialized conversations

based on stakeholders or stage in

54

: 00:03:28

the sales cycle things like that.

55

: 00:03:31

I sold that business to, to Forrester

with the idea of building out a

56

: 00:03:36

database based on very specific roles.

57

: 00:03:39

Like, how would you

navigate, an agreement network

58

: 00:03:43

inside an IT organization?

59

: 00:03:45

The very first report that I wrote

at Forrester was called Engineering

60

: 00:03:49

Valuable Sales Conversations, and

that report laid out just this concept

61

: 00:03:55

hey, we need to think about sales and

marketing a little bit more differently.

62

: 00:04:00

And in that role, at the time,

I was an analyst in Forrester's

63

: 00:04:06

market strategy function.

64

: 00:04:10

So the way Forrester worked at

the time was all of the products

65

: 00:04:15

were organized around a role.

66

: 00:04:17

There was content for CIOs, content for

VPs and networking, content for B2C CMOs.

67

: 00:04:24

So Forrester's Got tremendous depth

of expertise in B2C marketing.

68

: 00:04:30

I worked for technology

vendor strategists.

69

: 00:04:36

What I highlighted was, Hey, there's a

big gap between strategy and execution.

70

: 00:04:42

And this big gap of strategy and execution

is an opportunity for a new role.

71

: 00:04:49

So at the time it was very difficult

because Forrester had really

72

: 00:04:52

just moved into this new role.

73

: 00:04:53

So they didn't know how to create

new product offerings, new roles.

74

: 00:04:58

So what I did was I got 20 executives.

75

: 00:05:04

Into a room for an entire day, 10 of

them were CMOs, 10 of them were VPs

76

: 00:05:09

of sales, and we had an entire day's

discussion to discuss what are these

77

: 00:05:15

gaps, these strategic execution gaps.

78

: 00:05:19

Because we didn't want to have

the conversation about sales

79

: 00:05:21

and marketing alignment because

that was dated even in: 2008

80

: 00:05:26

What we wanted to do is come up

with a new idea, a new strategy.

81

: 00:05:30

And that strategy became what we

wrote out as the definition of

82

: 00:05:34

what we called sales enablement.

83

: 00:05:37

Which was taken from and

agreed to by that group

84

: 00:05:43

Erich Starrett: was that where it started?

85

: 00:05:45

Was Sales Enablement

always Sales Enablement?

86

: 00:05:47

Or was there like a close second and third

on the whiteboard that got crossed out?

87

: 00:05:52

Scott Santucci: No one really

could come up with a term.

88

: 00:05:54

So we just said, and the concept

of enablement was way more like an

89

: 00:06:00

engineer's view or a city planner's

view, not, um, how you enable a

90

: 00:06:06

drug addict or something like that.

91

: 00:06:09

It wasn't emotive.

92

: 00:06:10

It was engineering y, strategic y,

business process y, not functional

93

: 00:06:20

or what people do or activity based.

94

: 00:06:23

It had none of those vibes

95

: 00:06:25

If you have a room of 10 CMOs and a

room of 10, VPs of sales from different

96

: 00:06:33

companies, so they don't have to

worry about their internal politics

97

: 00:06:36

and challenge them with gaps between

the business strategy and friction

98

: 00:06:41

that they have among their functions.

99

: 00:06:43

You quickly realize that this is a

architectural or it's a design problem.

100

: 00:06:50

It's not a, who does what I

own this, you own that problem.

101

: 00:06:55

So because of that, and because the goal

was by the end of the day to come up

102

: 00:07:00

with a document, a statement that people

could agree with, , it creates that

103

: 00:07:05

that good forcing function to do that.

104

: 00:07:07

So we have this document, we

have a whole bunch of energy.

105

: 00:07:11

We had Forrester executives in

the room like, wow, this is a new

106

: 00:07:13

thing that we should get behind us.

107

: 00:07:15

We should sponsor, a role for it.

108

: 00:07:18

So we did a deep dive.

109

: 00:07:19

So when people looked at that

inside Forrester, there are people

110

: 00:07:24

who would say that's already a

job that product marketing does.

111

: 00:07:27

Look, we'll show you,

look, it's right here.

112

: 00:07:29

Look at the product marketing,

pragmatic marketing.

113

: 00:07:32

It says right here, sales

enablements, it's this stuff.

114

: 00:07:35

And then there are other people say no.

115

: 00:07:36

That's what sales training does.

116

: 00:07:38

And we said, look at this

definition that we came up with.

117

: 00:07:41

It's neither of those things,

though, those things are

118

: 00:07:44

subordinate to this bigger picture.

119

: 00:07:48

So yes, it is true.

120

: 00:07:51

Product marketing needs to

do some of those activities.

121

: 00:07:54

Yes, it's true.

122

: 00:07:55

Training need to do some of those

things, but they have to be in

123

: 00:07:57

service of something much bigger

or else they're not connected.

124

: 00:08:03

So we did deep dives.

125

: 00:08:05

We had to go and interview.

126

: 00:08:06

I think 50 companies, we had

to plot out where they were.

127

: 00:08:09

And then we had to figure out, whether

Forrester would make money doing that.

128

: 00:08:12

And if we would, what kind of money

would we make making that a role.

129

: 00:08:16

And that was the goal.

130

: 00:08:19

And we had four conferences

with specific themes.

131

: 00:08:24

The 1st conference theme was

separate ways, world apart,

132

: 00:08:28

Erich Starrett: sounds like a song.

133

: 00:08:29

Scott Santucci: It is a song.

134

: 00:08:31

Yeah.

135

: 00:08:31

It's a journey song.

136

: 00:08:32

All of them have songs, right?

137

: 00:08:34

You have the walkout song

and we connected it to it.

138

: 00:08:36

And we just did a lot of the

executive decision maker research.

139

: 00:08:41

To bring to light the research

that we had from executive decision

140

: 00:08:44

makers and how huge the gap is.

141

: 00:08:48

And it was getting worse.

142

: 00:08:50

And I would say, fast forward 2023, it's

even way worse now in: 2000

143

: 00:08:58

We introduced this whole concept

of working backwards from outcomes.

144

: 00:09:00

That was our HERO conference.

145

: 00:09:02

How do you evolve to be

a sales enablement hero?

146

: 00:09:07

The HERO, who are you a HERO for?

147

: 00:09:09

You're CEO.

148

: 00:09:11

And HERO is an acronym.

149

: 00:09:12

Holistic, Engineered, Reality

Based, and Ongoing Operations.

150

: 00:09:17

Then the next conference after that was

Accelerating Your Growth Initiative.

151

: 00:09:22

We had George colony talk about

CEOs perspectives and we had our

152

: 00:09:26

CFO talk about CFO perspectives and.

153

: 00:09:29

We talked about how sales and

marketing are becoming complex,

154

: 00:09:33

adaptive systems, and you need to

have different strategies for that.

155

: 00:09:36

And then the last conference that

I was there was our growth agenda,

156

: 00:09:40

where we gave people canvases, actual

canvases to start plot that were done

157

: 00:09:46

in layers to plot those things out.

158

: 00:09:49

What was very interesting is by

the time: 2014

159

: 00:09:54

were two schools, a thought

160

: 00:09:56

there were director and manager

level people who viewed sales as

161

: 00:10:02

it sells the name went more as this

job description or role and it was

162

: 00:10:05

about activities and who does what.

163

: 00:10:08

And then there was a collection

of people that looked at it more

164

: 00:10:10

strategic, which was, hey, we do

need to be at that synapse between

165

: 00:10:15

corporate strategy and and execution.

166

: 00:10:18

We do need to build strong alliances

with the finance department and we do

167

: 00:10:23

need to, build bridges between product.

168

: 00:10:26

Groups who have a number and sales

groups who also have a number, but

169

: 00:10:31

their numbers are very different.

170

: 00:10:33

We do need to be able to create layers

in terms of market materials instead

171

: 00:10:37

of making everything about a product.

172

: 00:10:39

So that's what we did, but that

was, I would say less than 30

173

: 00:10:44

percent of our customer base.

174

: 00:10:46

But those people way higher

up in the organization.

175

: 00:10:49

I left Forrester to join Alexander group

to work with those strategic people.

176

: 00:10:57

So that's the background.

177

: 00:10:58

We use the word sales enablement

for a bunch of reasons.

178

: 00:11:01

One is we Wanted to pick a word

that didn't really have a standard.

179

: 00:11:05

We had a bias that enablement

is more like architecture.

180

: 00:11:08

You design something and

you enable stuff to happen.

181

: 00:11:12

You don't enable by doing

things for people you enable by

182

: 00:11:16

designing and letting, people

be just paying attention to it.

183

: 00:11:21

So that's the prequel

184

: 00:11:25

Erich Starrett: you've created

this title sales enablement.

185

: 00:11:28

There are things being produced

and sent out into the world.

186

: 00:11:31

When did it go from what I'll call

behind the boardroom walls out

187

: 00:11:36

into the place where it started

to be to become a society?

188

: 00:11:40

Once that information got out, where did

the seeds of this external society start?

189

: 00:11:46

Scott Santucci: So there were

a collection of tech vendors.

190

: 00:11:51

That existed that called themselves

sales, excellence, sales,

191

: 00:11:57

enablement, things like that.

192

: 00:11:59

Erich Starrett: Like SAVO I

think was maybe one of those.

193

: 00:12:04

Scott Santucci: Yeah.

194

: 00:12:04

There were ones even before . So for

example, I met Tim Riesterer, or When

195

: 00:12:08

he was at a company called Ventaso.

196

: 00:12:11

And Ventaso was a business, I think in the

: 2005

197

: 00:12:18

like a database of messages to help match

the right messages to to other people.

198

: 00:12:24

Jody Kavanaugh had a company

called Launch International that

199

: 00:12:29

she sold to Corporate Visions.

200

: 00:12:30

Craig Nelson at a company called iCentera.

201

: 00:12:32

I think , his tagline was portals for

mortals but there were a collection of

202

: 00:12:38

businesses that had specialized tool sets.

203

: 00:12:44

But there wasn't really a formal identity.

204

: 00:12:47

So I wouldn't necessarily say

that there was one big event.

205

: 00:12:51

There were these things, people out

in the marketplace to begin with.

206

: 00:12:56

Forrester is a big name.

207

: 00:13:00

Forrester says, this is

something to pay attention to it.

208

: 00:13:03

People do pay attention to it.

209

: 00:13:05

So the fact that we had a conference

for it, guess what happened.

210

: 00:13:08

Suddenly you got a lot of people,

oh, we're in that category.

211

: 00:13:11

We're in the sales Enablement category.

212

: 00:13:14

That's in the public.

213

: 00:13:15

It's not in a closed network.

214

: 00:13:18

Now, a lot of the research is behind a

firewall that you have to pay for it.

215

: 00:13:22

But there are a lot of

people who pay for that.

216

: 00:13:23

One of the things that you get as a

Forrester analyst is you do inquiries..

217

: 00:13:28

We had a policy at Forrester, we'd

take a pitch from any vendor whether

218

: 00:13:33

or not, you were a client of ours.

219

: 00:13:35

In other words, there's a lot of myths

about pay to play and everything like

220

: 00:13:38

that just aren't true or weren't true.

221

: 00:13:42

I just know that the way that we did

things at Forrester at that time were more

222

: 00:13:48

above board than people give them credit.

223

: 00:13:51

So I got, I, I would get presented and

pitched as a sales enabling company.

224

: 00:13:58

I had over a hundred pitches.

225

: 00:14:00

And they were all over the place.

226

: 00:14:02

They said, Oh, we're sales enablement

and they keep trying to narrow

227

: 00:14:07

the description and make sales

enablement as tight and small a focal

228

: 00:14:14

point to align to their use cases.

229

: 00:14:16

So with each one of those

vendors, they would promote ideas.

230

: 00:14:20

So Sabo got raised a lot of money.

231

: 00:14:22

They promoted their ideas a lot.

232

: 00:14:25

Corporate visions promoted their ideas.

233

: 00:14:27

Sometimes they'd hire us.

234

: 00:14:28

I would speak at some of these things.

235

: 00:14:31

, they would create these environments

to have public conversations.

236

: 00:14:36

aT Forrester, we created councils, which

was a different kind of product service.

237

: 00:14:40

So that basically, instead of just

getting access to research, we would

238

: 00:14:45

have quarterly meetings that I would

facilitate we would pick a problem

239

: 00:14:50

and we would resolve it and then we

would make the resolution of that

240

: 00:14:54

available to only those members.

241

: 00:14:56

And then we also had a different council,

which we're trying to create standards.

242

: 00:15:00

We're trying to say to the vendors, guys.

243

: 00:15:04

None of this makes any sense.

244

: 00:15:05

Your success will improve if you

guys can agree on certain standards,

245

: 00:15:09

the reason I highlight that out is

there was a lot of conversations

246

: 00:15:13

coming from both of those scenarios.

247

: 00:15:16

We wouldn't publish it.

248

: 00:15:17

We wanted to create a form where people

could argue in the safe zone so that they

249

: 00:15:22

don't look bad inside their companies

chatham House rules, if you will.

250

: 00:15:27

What we did, though, is when people

agreed, they would talk about it.

251

: 00:15:31

But, of course what happens is when

you've got a lot of momentum and a

252

: 00:15:35

lot of people joining it, Oh, yeah,

I've been doing it my whole life.

253

: 00:15:39

But it was never as agreed

to by, this group of people.

254

: 00:15:44

So to try to enforce some sort of standard

or promote some sort of standard to get

255

: 00:15:48

people to follow it was, challenging,

256

: 00:15:51

Erich Starrett: so maybe a good

next step in this LinkedIn that

257

: 00:15:56

platform played such a big role.

258

: 00:15:58

You'd probably give it as a

supporting actor status in

259

: 00:16:00

the movie, at least I'm sure.

260

: 00:16:02

But for anyone tuning in, by the way,

I can not highly enough recommend

261

: 00:16:07

you liking, following, linking.

262

: 00:16:09

With Scott Santucci and taking the time,

not just to pay attention to stuff that's

263

: 00:16:15

coming out now, but go back and read

the previous articles and posts that's

264

: 00:16:18

where the sales enablement history is.

265

: 00:16:21

And I'm going to be quoting

a good bit from them today.

266

: 00:16:24

This is from one of Scott's articles.

267

: 00:16:27

The S E S is all of us.

268

: 00:16:29

Throughout 2016.

269

: 00:16:33

Which is the 7 year anniversary

where we're at right now, right?

270

: 00:16:37

We held monthly meetings with

interactive open agendas.

271

: 00:16:40

We'd pick a theme, have a public

and facilitated meeting and publish

272

: 00:16:45

what we agreed to on LinkedIn.

273

: 00:16:46

Only about 100 people

would read our outputs.

274

: 00:16:49

Walter Pollard and Jen Burns joined

us very slowly in our growing network.

275

: 00:16:54

In our very slowly growing network

during this finding our way phase,

276

: 00:16:58

then I started getting calls from

other people around the country wanting

277

: 00:17:02

to start their version of our group.

278

: 00:17:05

This was amazing to me because only

about a hundred people are reading

279

: 00:17:08

the article, but somehow linked in as

a platform was spreading these seeds.

280

: 00:17:14

whAt did that look like?

281

: 00:17:15

, those public meetings ? What kind

of format were you using and how did

282

: 00:17:20

you start to perpetuate that in other

areas in response to that outreach?

283

: 00:17:25

Scott Santucci: Let me

take this in the chunks.

284

: 00:17:27

1st, from a context

standpoint when I left.

285

: 00:17:31

Forrester

286

: 00:17:31

I joined the Alexander group, which

is a management consulting company.

287

: 00:17:37

When you work in a management

consulting company, you go way in depth.

288

: 00:17:43

So at Forrester, I might get.

289

: 00:17:45

Eight inquiries a day.

290

: 00:17:47

So an inquiry would be, I'd

have eight 30 minute calls

291

: 00:17:51

with people all over the world

292

: 00:17:53

at Alexander group.

293

: 00:17:55

You'll work on 10 projects a

year with the same company.

294

: 00:18:01

So the depth is greater,

but the breadth isn't there.

295

: 00:18:07

So what I missed, what I loved about being

at Forrester is people would, stump the

296

: 00:18:12

analyst or, challenge you or whatever.

297

: 00:18:14

And I loved that.

298

: 00:18:16

So I missed.

299

: 00:18:17

That interaction of

constantly constant new ideas.

300

: 00:18:21

so the idea was, what if I

started a local meetup group?

301

: 00:18:26

At the time.

302

: 00:18:27

So let's say 2015 period, I

was extremely anti social.

303

: 00:18:35

I thought social selling was.

304

: 00:18:37

A bunch of And I'd met Jill

Rowley when I was at Forrester.

305

: 00:18:42

And I just, I really connected with her.

306

: 00:18:45

And she was challenging

me, you gotta do more.

307

: 00:18:46

And I was like, I don't

even understand this.

308

: 00:18:49

I Was speaking at at a conference

for HP and she said, Hey, let me

309

: 00:18:55

connect you with Tiffany Bova.

310

: 00:18:57

And I was like, I don't know who that is.

311

: 00:18:59

It's yeah I know who that is.

312

: 00:19:00

So I said, okay, I'll try my

old school way of networking and

313

: 00:19:07

you use the social social way.

314

: 00:19:10

And let's see who gets at her first.

315

: 00:19:13

I got to her first, but the value

of the conversation was way better

316

: 00:19:19

because Jill was able to give context.

317

: 00:19:22

So it wasn't like it was in

depth, super, super fast.

318

: 00:19:27

So that made me go, Holy , this is

way more powerful than I thought.

319

: 00:19:34

I'm always going to be

biased to one relationships.

320

: 00:19:39

bUt the leverage that Jill showed me

by me having to experience it myself,

321

: 00:19:46

because another thing that I like.

322

: 00:19:49

about Jill is you just got to do it.

323

: 00:19:52

You just got to do it.

324

: 00:19:53

Like she, she'll, I'm not going

to say that she pesters everybody,

325

: 00:19:57

but I like that she does that.

326

: 00:19:59

Tamara Schenk also like

you got to be on social.

327

: 00:20:02

Yeah.

328

: 00:20:02

I don't want to, you got to

love being challenged like that.

329

: 00:20:06

I love it.

330

: 00:20:08

And the reason that I love it is

that you always learn something,

331

: 00:20:10

especially if you do it together.

332

: 00:20:12

Which happened in like November, 2015

was, , this is a lot more powerful.

333

: 00:20:18

So what does that have to do with

the Sales Enablement Society?

334

: 00:20:21

in December of 2015,, I just gotten

back from this really exciting

335

: 00:20:29

transformation project we worked

on with a manufacturing company.

336

: 00:20:33

And I was happy about it, but I didn't.

337

: 00:20:36

Only the people in that

company knew about it.

338

: 00:20:37

There wasn't any way to share that.

339

: 00:20:39

There wasn't like the councils that,

that we'd set up at, at Forrester

340

: 00:20:44

via say, Hey, let's tell a story

about what Symantec is doing.

341

: 00:20:47

Let's tell a story what

this company is doing.

342

: 00:20:50

And that made me sad.

343

: 00:20:52

aNd also I didn't like

being known as an author.

344

: 00:20:56

I liked, I wanted to have more

closer connections with humans.

345

: 00:21:00

I got this idea of saying, what if

I started a local meetup group and

346

: 00:21:06

instead of doing it by calling people,

I decided, Hey, what if I took what I

347

: 00:21:14

learned from what Jill got me to do?

348

: 00:21:17

And what if I asked to

create this thing online?

349

: 00:21:21

So , I wrote up it was a

letter for friends.

350

: 00:21:25

You can go read it.

351

: 00:21:26

Cause it's still published out there.

352

: 00:21:29

I wrote out this this letter for friends.

353

: 00:21:31

And I looked at my keyboard for at

least two hours before I hit send.

354

: 00:21:36

Cause I was scared . Cause I was used to.

355

: 00:21:39

When I would publish something at

Forrester, I'd get 20, 000 views.

356

: 00:21:43

Erich Starrett: Rockstar.

357

: 00:21:45

Scott Santucci: Yeah.

358

: 00:21:46

It's what you think, right?

359

: 00:21:47

It's the metrics and, the

metrics matter or whatever.

360

: 00:21:49

And even after I left, when I would

write an article on LinkedIn, I

361

: 00:21:55

get 5, 000 views, 10, 000 views.

362

: 00:21:59

So I'm like, okay I'm relevant

and all that other stuff.

363

: 00:22:02

But I knew that this letter Probably

would be the end of all that.

364

: 00:22:08

So

365

: 00:22:10

I thought really deeply about

whether to do it or not.

366

: 00:22:13

I hit send.

367

: 00:22:14

And I think to this day, even all

these years later, it's got a whopping

368

: 00:22:17

total, like 300 reads so I was like,

I really screwed up my career.

369

: 00:22:23

Erich Starrett: Was

Jerry Maguire out then?

370

: 00:22:24

It was like the, I published my manifesto!

371

: 00:22:27

That hit send part, when he's

up all night putting the...

372

: 00:22:31

Scott Santucci: You're right.

373

: 00:22:31

That was a Jerry Maguire kind of thing.

374

: 00:22:34

But what happened was so interesting.

375

: 00:22:37

Because it got engagement.

376

: 00:22:40

And by engagement, people would call me.

377

: 00:22:42

And Or people, sent me direct notes.

378

: 00:22:46

So this article just asked, Hey, is

anybody interested in forming a group?

379

: 00:22:51

And I thought it would be

successful if I had five,

380

: 00:22:55

I called Brian Lambert, who

lived in the area at the time,

381

: 00:22:57

said, You're one of them.

382

: 00:22:58

You're going to go.

383

: 00:22:59

So there's four now.

384

: 00:23:01

The very first meeting we had 16 people.

385

: 00:23:04

We had to change venues twice.

386

: 00:23:07

And that's how it got started.

387

: 00:23:09

So the very first meeting that we had

was just a meeting to discuss whether we

388

: 00:23:14

should have our other meetings or not.

389

: 00:23:16

And people went around the room and said,

this is what sales enablement means to me.

390

: 00:23:19

And it means something

different to everybody.

391

: 00:23:21

It's wasn't that interesting?

392

: 00:23:22

What if we texturalized it?

393

: 00:23:25

And then we started

having monthly meetings.

394

: 00:23:29

I'd call people, I'd send emails to

people who, had sales enablement or sales

395

: 00:23:33

leadership or whatever in the title, in

the DC area and invite 'em to participate.

396

: 00:23:39

What?

397

: 00:23:39

Do what?

398

: 00:23:39

Why am I coming?

399

: 00:23:40

It's I don't know.

400

: 00:23:41

We're here to figure it out.

401

: 00:23:43

And we had a theme, but

it wasn't a presentation.

402

: 00:23:48

It was Hey, let's see if we can plot

out what the problems are or I presented

403

: 00:23:53

something that I did way back in

the past and I didn't tell anybody.

404

: 00:23:56

It was my own work.

405

: 00:23:57

And I said, let's critique it.

406

: 00:23:59

We beat that up.

407

: 00:24:01

.

Everything was conflict oriented, but in a positive way, the goal of

408

: 00:24:05

figuring out And one of the rules was I

published something after each meeting,

409

: 00:24:11

a standard format which says,

here's a topic with , a 20

410

: 00:24:15

minute overview, a frame.

411

: 00:24:17

Here are our roles and responsibilities.

412

: 00:24:21

Here's how we're going to attack it.

413

: 00:24:22

And here are the, group

activities that we need to do.

414

: 00:24:24

And we do the activities and

we read out the feedback and

415

: 00:24:28

then, argue it out from there.

416

: 00:24:30

Erich Starrett: So when those folks

were reaching out to you and going, hey.

417

: 00:24:33

That meetup thing you're doing where

you're using that model and people aren't

418

: 00:24:38

just showing up with PowerPoint slides,

but you're getting actual work done and

419

: 00:24:42

there's stuff coming out of these things.

420

: 00:24:44

Did you share that same format out with

the other groups that were reaching out

421

: 00:24:50

to you or what did that package look like?

422

: 00:24:52

Scott Santucci: At this point in

time, no one's reached out to me yet.

423

: 00:24:55

That's never been asked for.

424

: 00:24:57

So there's no reason to

document or anything like that.

425

: 00:25:00

Erich Starrett: I'm asking.

426

: 00:25:02

You know what I want for Christmas, scott.

427

: 00:25:04

Scott Santucci: Deal.

428

: 00:25:05

And what would happen over a period of

time is people saw these outputs and

429

: 00:25:13

go, Hey, I want to set up a meetup too.

430

: 00:25:17

So I got a few of those

diRect messages on LinkedIn.

431

: 00:25:20

None of this is visible.

432

: 00:25:21

All of this is behind the scenes,

which is another . Interesting

433

: 00:25:25

thing that I learned from Jill.

434

: 00:25:29

Hopefully it's super clear.

435

: 00:25:30

It took Jill Rowley pushing

me to get on LinkedIn.

436

: 00:25:33

And then I'm eternally grateful for it.

437

: 00:25:36

Erich Starrett: By the way, I just ran

into her in Nashville, a few weeks back.

438

: 00:25:40

This is the hug she

said, pass along to you.

439

: 00:25:43

I love that connection.

440

: 00:25:45

Scott Santucci: Huge fan of her.

441

: 00:25:47

. I think the key, the thing that focus

in on is that most people pay attention

442

: 00:25:51

to the metrics and the clicks, but what

is really powerful about social media

443

: 00:25:58

are the things that people don't see.

444

: 00:26:01

It's the questions and the

engagement that you get from that.

445

: 00:26:04

So I'm getting these, hey,

What are you doing there?

446

: 00:26:10

Hey I want to say how should

I set up a local meetup group?

447

: 00:26:15

I'm like beats me.

448

: 00:26:16

I don't even know what we're doing.

449

: 00:26:17

I really don't.

450

: 00:26:18

, here's my paper trail.

451

: 00:26:19

I'm publishing everything along the way.

452

: 00:26:21

You want to follow along?

453

: 00:26:22

and help me figure out what I'm doing.

454

: 00:26:25

I just set out with this goal and

I want to find people who are like

455

: 00:26:28

minded that are willing to discuss

these things and be curious about it.

456

: 00:26:33

So along the way, Daniel West, who

was a Forrester client and also a

457

: 00:26:40

Serious Decisions client said, Hey,

I want you to meet this guy, Jim.

458

: 00:26:45

Jim Nenevaji.

459

: 00:26:47

And I said, no, I don't want to.

460

: 00:26:50

He was the competitor and they

were trying to rip us off.

461

: 00:26:53

Cause serious decisions started their

sales and annual practice afterwards.

462

: 00:26:57

And I heard from our clients that they

were going after our marquee clients.

463

: 00:27:01

And I'm like, why don't they come up with

their own new idea was like my attitude.

464

: 00:27:05

I'm not meeting him.

465

: 00:27:05

All right.

466

: 00:27:07

And then Dan is like, what are you doing?

467

: 00:27:09

What are you doing?

468

: 00:27:11

Are you going to be that kind of a baby?

469

: 00:27:12

You don't even work there anymore.

470

: 00:27:14

It's he's a good guy.

471

: 00:27:16

And I'm like, I don't

care what good guy he is.

472

: 00:27:18

And Dan is you gotta do it

for me, so I'm like, okay.

473

: 00:27:23

So there's that theme, right?

474

: 00:27:25

I, I need you to challenge me on it.

475

: 00:27:27

And, I met him and we were

like brothers in ten minutes.

476

: 00:27:33

I didn't want to, it took about , 10

minutes to where we were like.

477

: 00:27:39

Long lost best friends in

that first conversation.

478

: 00:27:44

He's Hey, why don't you

I'm going to go do this?

479

: 00:27:47

Council to promote brain

shark, but I want to promote.

480

: 00:27:50

I just want to get people

talking about, sales enablement.

481

: 00:27:54

wHy don't you show up?

482

: 00:27:56

I was like, yeah that'd be awesome.

483

: 00:27:57

I'll do that.

484

: 00:27:58

So I flew out.

485

: 00:28:00

We were like kids in a candy

store, planning that I told him

486

: 00:28:03

you to just show up at the local

DC area sales and marketing

487

: 00:28:08

meetup group, which was my title.

488

: 00:28:10

It's super, super clear.

489

: 00:28:12

I'm a great marketer.

490

: 00:28:14

So we show up and it was like

improv night between Jim and I.

491

: 00:28:21

Highlighting the key points, and I

decided that I was gonna just try

492

: 00:28:26

to make Daniel West uncomfortable.

493

: 00:28:28

Because, he put me on the spot

there, so I'm gonna just, I'm

494

: 00:28:31

gonna put him on the spot.

495

: 00:28:33

And he's a good, he's such

a good sport with that.

496

: 00:28:36

So anyway we wrap up this meeting, and we

challenge them to start their own chapter

497

: 00:28:43

of the San Francisco blah blah blah blah.

498

: 00:28:47

It's your group.

499

: 00:28:48

Come up with your own

name . And it's Daniel.

500

: 00:28:51

You're the president.

501

: 00:28:52

YoU figure it out.

502

: 00:28:53

And that's how that's how

the first chapter got born.

503

: 00:28:58

It was in the same spirit how I got

into social by Jill challenging me.

504

: 00:29:03

By first Daniel challenging me.

505

: 00:29:06

And me and Jim, deciding, Hey,

we're going to challenge him.

506

: 00:29:11

And then we challenged that

group of about 12 people there,

507

: 00:29:14

which Sheevaun was there too.

508

: 00:29:16

So you can probably get some good

stories from her perspective.

509

: 00:29:20

Erich Starrett: Love it.

510

: 00:29:21

It was all started on a

dare is what we'll call it.

511

: 00:29:24

Scott Santucci: I guess a triple dog dare.

512

: 00:29:26

I just skipped formality and

went right to triple dog dare.

513

: 00:29:29

I came back and I, we had our local DC

so we have a San Francisco chapter, but

514

: 00:29:35

maybe they won't be affiliated and, I

can be part of that 1 and part of this 1,

515

: 00:29:38

if we don't want to try to link them up.

516

: 00:29:41

We said, we, try to link them up

and in doing so Raul Gupta just ran

517

: 00:29:48

with it and he made his own website.

518

: 00:29:49

So the lion logo, , Raul did that.

519

: 00:29:53

He did it all in like a weekend

to say, look, if we're going to do

520

: 00:29:57

this, it can't be as embarrassing, no

offense, Santucci, but DC local area

521

: 00:30:02

sales and marketing meetup group.

522

: 00:30:04

Isn't, really that great.

523

: 00:30:05

I was like I agree with you.

524

: 00:30:08

I'm open to change the name.

525

: 00:30:10

So SalEnablementism Society, he

came up with the, with the lion.

526

: 00:30:14

He came up with the first, website.

527

: 00:30:16

It was amazing.

528

: 00:30:17

And he did it like in a weekend.

529

: 00:30:19

So we had that and then at the same

time, one of the people been contacting

530

: 00:30:25

me about a local group was Jill Guardia.

531

: 00:30:29

How would I set this up?

532

: 00:30:30

And I said do you want to

set up just as a local group?

533

: 00:30:32

Or do we have this DC one and

we've got the San Francisco one.

534

: 00:30:37

Do you want to be part of that?

535

: 00:30:39

Oh, I want to be a part of that . I

said, okay we'll have a meeting.

536

: 00:30:42

We'll go and get it kicked off.

537

: 00:30:45

In either September or October, we had

a meeting there, and their mission was

538

: 00:30:50

to come up with what's the end game.

539

: 00:30:53

We co wrote in that meeting what the end

state of Sales Enablement should be.

540

: 00:30:58

We called it the Chief Productivity

Officer, and I was, writing down

541

: 00:31:02

on the screen what people were

agreeing to as we were there.

542

: 00:31:07

. There were a lot of people

in that that meeting.

543

: 00:31:09

So Lee Levitt was in that meeting.

544

: 00:31:11

Mike Kunkel was in that meeting.

545

: 00:31:13

The founding of the Boston chapter.

546

: 00:31:16

Erich Starrett: Timeline wise,

are we in mid: 2016

547

: 00:31:20

Scott Santucci: Yeah.

548

: 00:31:21

. It's August, September

timeframe So we go, Huh?

549

: 00:31:25

We got these three.

550

: 00:31:27

I say to our group, What should we do?

551

: 00:31:30

Alexander group.

552

: 00:31:30

We have this conference coming up.

553

: 00:31:33

I can ask my company whether

or not we could get space and,

554

: 00:31:36

try to have a national meeting.

555

: 00:31:38

They're like the the

Continental Convention.

556

: 00:31:41

Should this be a national thing?

557

: 00:31:42

If so, it should be not us running

the shots, that's like the central

558

: 00:31:49

command and control thing that I'm

not a part of, so we should do that.

559

: 00:31:54

Will you guys commit to help?

560

: 00:31:55

Let's agree on what a number would look

like, because the optics for me are going

561

: 00:31:58

to look terrible if no one shows up.

562

: 00:32:01

So will we commit to try

to get 20 people there?

563

: 00:32:04

We thought 20 people to show up.

564

: 00:32:09

On a Friday afternoon in Palm Beach,

if you've ever been to Palm Beach,

565

: 00:32:14

Florida, it's not easy to get to

could we get 20 people to fly in to

566

: 00:32:20

Palm Beach from, around the country?

567

: 00:32:23

To, have a meeting and set this up.

568

: 00:32:25

Our goal was 20.

569

: 00:32:28

yEah, we'll do that.

570

: 00:32:29

We're going to commit to do these

kinds of things, and that's when we

571

: 00:32:33

decided at that moment in time, we're

going to explore whether or not to

572

: 00:32:39

start the Sales Enablement Society.

573

: 00:32:41

So the founding meeting that happened

in Palm Beach, November: 2016

574

: 00:32:50

meeting to decide whether or not the

Sales Enablement Society should be born.

575

: 00:32:56

That's the backstory.

576

: 00:32:57

So to to promote that, we

just did the same thing.

577

: 00:33:02

Hey, I'm going to go back to

what I learned from Jill Rowley.

578

: 00:33:04

I'm going to go back and say, I'm going

to write, this is what we want to do.

579

: 00:33:09

So the first thing was I

put a mission statement out.

580

: 00:33:12

Instead of taking a report that people

expect from me, I'm going to make an ask.

581

: 00:33:19

But instead of making an

ask to one person, what if I

582

: 00:33:23

did it to a group of people?

583

: 00:33:24

I try to extend Jill's idea from one to

one to say, what if I did one to many?

584

: 00:33:31

What if you do it this way?

585

: 00:33:32

What if you do it that way?

586

: 00:33:34

So we picked on those nuances and

along the way, just by publishing

587

: 00:33:37

things and using more of the

feature set of of LinkedIn.

588

: 00:33:42

The more you use it, the more it

gets difficult to talk about what

589

: 00:33:46

it is because it's so experiential.

590

: 00:33:48

So you get you push more of those

things out and more people engage.

591

: 00:33:51

We said, okay, we're going to do the same

thing to promote the national meeting.

592

: 00:33:56

So I wrote a letter

593

: 00:33:57

If I were to paraphrase the 1st letter for

the local meetup group was hi, I'm Scott.

594

: 00:34:02

I'm looking for business friends.

595

: 00:34:04

It's, are you not only looking

for business friends, but do you

596

: 00:34:07

think that things could be better?

597

: 00:34:09

Do you want to make a difference?

598

: 00:34:11

If so, we're going to convene this

we're going to run it like the

599

: 00:34:17

continental convention, here are rules,

and you even wrote up all the rules

600

: 00:34:22

to follow and everything like that.

601

: 00:34:24

How did it happen from

there to November 19th.

602

: 00:34:26

A lot of interesting stories behind that.

603

: 00:34:29

And then what actually happened in

that is a lot of interesting stuff too.

604

: 00:34:34

a

605

: 00:34:35

Erich Starrett: That

was an awesome flyover.

606

: 00:34:36

We went from Jill Rowley to Ninivaggi.

607

: 00:34:39

Then we went to Boston with

Guardia and we touched on Sheevaun.

608

: 00:34:44

But all the way back to that

original meetup, I really

609

: 00:34:47

want to get inside that room.

610

: 00:34:49

Were there key players?

611

: 00:34:50

Were there key moments,

612

: 00:34:52

Scott Santucci: I'd love to tell

you a story, like a, just a whole

613

: 00:34:56

thing, just about Walter Pollard.

614

: 00:34:58

Erich Starrett: Awesome.

615

: 00:34:58

Love Walter.

616

: 00:34:59

Scott Santucci: But I his shining

moment is way, is more when you

617

: 00:35:03

get to the conference in 2017.

618

: 00:35:05

This event could have gone either

way, I almost quit doing it.

619

: 00:35:11

The meetups.

620

: 00:35:12

So we started out like our first official

meetup, that first meeting to decide

621

: 00:35:18

whether we should do meetups or not.

622

: 00:35:19

That had 16 people, That was in February.

623

: 00:35:22

We had our first official meetup in March.

624

: 00:35:26

And then we had monthly ones, March,

April, May, June, July, August, September.

625

: 00:35:33

Most of them were at my country club.

626

: 00:35:35

So we go from, 16 30.

627

: 00:35:39

So we're getting about 40 people,

coming to these things that

628

: 00:35:44

no one can really describe.

629

: 00:35:45

And it was a lot of energy.

630

: 00:35:48

We had very formal ways about

making people comfortable.

631

: 00:35:52

I reached out to each individual person

beforehand and talked to them, to

632

: 00:35:57

say, you know who you should talk

to, you should talk to this person.

633

: 00:35:59

And I made sure I made

introductions, all those things.

634

: 00:36:03

So one of the people that

came to the meetings, there's

635

: 00:36:06

a guy named Brian Murphy.

636

: 00:36:08

Got a sales background

that I just love to death.

637

: 00:36:13

And the topic that we were discussing

were charters and how important they were.

638

: 00:36:18

we basically had two camps, one camp

saying that they're super important.

639

: 00:36:23

Other people are like, look,

they're just forms we fill out.

640

: 00:36:26

Our company gives us a form and

we fill it out over the weekend.

641

: 00:36:29

And at, in the middle of the table, I had

my computer and it was a projector up.

642

: 00:36:37

And Brian Murphy got really frustrated

at that whole attitude of we just

643

: 00:36:43

fill it out and he got up And he

took control of my computer without

644

: 00:36:49

asking me, which I loved so much.

645

: 00:36:52

I'm like, huh, I wonder

where this is going.

646

: 00:36:55

He googled the Magna Carta and he lectured

us how this is a charter and how important

647

: 00:37:02

they are and they change history.

648

: 00:37:03

And if you don't take it seriously,,

you're an imbecile or something.

649

: 00:37:08

He was so passionate.

650

: 00:37:11

And I'm like, thank you, man.

651

: 00:37:14

That was great.

652

: 00:37:15

And the reason he's frustrated is

because the guy's a sales leader his

653

: 00:37:19

whole life and he's sick and tired.

654

: 00:37:21

Of these half assed efforts.

655

: 00:37:23

Is that right?

656

: 00:37:24

It's absolutely right.

657

: 00:37:25

It's okay, so somebody's just got to be

able to translate for him when they're

658

: 00:37:29

when people, so oh, I understand.

659

: 00:37:31

He's not actually attacking me.

660

: 00:37:33

It's like, how could

I don't even know you,

661

: 00:37:35

you have to create that

forum to let people.

662

: 00:37:41

understand where their passions come from.

663

: 00:37:43

That was such a huge deal.

664

: 00:37:46

I was smiling so much to get that

kind of creative conflict and passion.

665

: 00:37:52

I was happy that I wasn't having to be

the one to push it because if I can be the

666

: 00:37:58

good cop and make sure everybody gets on.

667

: 00:38:01

And I said, one thing that I'm going

to ask you guys, can we have that

668

: 00:38:04

actually be at one of your locations?

669

: 00:38:06

Yeah, because I'm picking up the

tab for these so Lisa Pitner says,

670

: 00:38:09

yeah, I, let's have it at our place.

671

: 00:38:13

And she worked at Cisco has this

amazing facility in downtown DC.

672

: 00:38:19

We could go do a happy hour.

673

: 00:38:22

.I'm thinking, Hey, if I can get 40

people to all the way out in Ashburn,

674

: 00:38:26

which is in the suburbs, we should

probably be able to get 50 people.

675

: 00:38:32

At Cisco's headquarters downtown

with a happy hour afterwards.

676

: 00:38:36

So I'm like, all right, let's test this.

677

: 00:38:38

I'm thinking, what can I do here

to put more skin in the game?

678

: 00:38:42

. And I'm like, okay, let's see what else

we can do with the social media stuff.

679

: 00:38:47

So I called up the CMO

at the time at seismic.

680

: 00:38:52

And I said Hey, Daniel

we've got this thing.

681

: 00:38:54

You guys have this podcast.

682

: 00:38:55

You should do a podcast live.

683

: 00:38:58

And watch this organic thing happening.

684

: 00:39:01

Cause I'm thinking, there's going

to be at least 25 people there.

685

: 00:39:04

So we had this meeting.

686

: 00:39:06

It turns out it's hard to get the DC.

687

: 00:39:08

It was in the summer.

688

: 00:39:09

People wanted to go to the beach or

whatever, but only six people showed up.

689

: 00:39:13

So at the happy hour, I was just

pouting and I was stewing and

690

: 00:39:19

Lisa came up and sat next to me.

691

: 00:39:21

This was so smart of her.

692

: 00:39:24

And she said, what's up?

693

: 00:39:26

And I said, eh, I don't

want to talk about it.

694

: 00:39:29

Are you mad about something?

695

: 00:39:31

Yeah, I'm super pissed.

696

: 00:39:33

Like we've only got six people there

and she's, she looked at me and she

697

: 00:39:36

said, get over yourself, unquote.

698

: 00:39:41

And I looked at her like, strangely,

she said, look, is everybody having fun?

699

: 00:39:48

Did you care to even ask whether I

thought it was a great meeting or not?

700

: 00:39:53

I got six other people here to

give me new ideas on my own turf.

701

: 00:39:59

And you're over here moping

702

: 00:40:01

.

And I'm like, . You're so right.

703

: 00:40:07

What I was, I said, , why

am I embarrassed?

704

: 00:40:09

I'm embarrassed for me.

705

: 00:40:10

I'm embarrassed because, I was trying

to promote all this stuff up, probably

706

: 00:40:15

did it a little bit too early.

707

: 00:40:17

And then Lisa and Nicole O'Brien and I

had drinks and had the most fun, funniest

708

: 00:40:27

conversation I think I've had in my life.

709

: 00:40:30

Afterwards.

710

: 00:40:31

If Lisa wouldn't have come to me and

told me to literally get over myself.

711

: 00:40:36

What's wrong with you?

712

: 00:40:38

How come you didn't ask me whether I

thought it was a good meeting or not?

713

: 00:40:41

I would have stopped doing it.

714

: 00:40:42

The whole way that all this

worked was people challenging

715

: 00:40:46

each other in a very positive way.

716

: 00:40:50

So that would be the one thing that

I think is incredibly important

717

: 00:40:55

that in all change initiatives.

718

: 00:40:58

you're going to have those pivotal

moments and either you stew on it and

719

: 00:41:04

don't talk about it or you confront

it and go, hell are you talking about?

720

: 00:41:09

Erich Starrett: And that's

one I've never heard.

721

: 00:41:10

I love it.

722

: 00:41:11

I love it.

723

: 00:41:12

That was a great story, Scott.

724

: 00:41:14

, but let's get in a time

machine and head to Palm Beach.

725

: 00:41:17

... which is exactly what we will do.

726

: 00:41:20

And part two, please tune back in.

727

: 00:41:23

We'll see you soon.

728

: 00:41:25

VoiceOverGuy: Thanks for

joining us to become an insider

729

: 00:41:27

and amplify your journey.

730

: 00:41:29

Please make sure you've

subscribed to our show.