ISEs3 Ep2: Scott Santucci Pt2 - The Birth of the Sales Enablement Society

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Welcome to the Inside Sales Enablement Podcast.

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Where has the profession been?

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Where is it now?

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And where is it heading?

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What does it mean to you?

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Your company?

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Other functions?

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The market?

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Find out here.

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The Inside Sales Enablement

Podcast starts now.

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Erich Starrett: Hello and welcome

to inside sales enablement.

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Season three, where we take a leap

into the enablement time machine

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and take a look back with those who

played a part in enablement history.

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Pause in the present and hit on a

few modern themes, and then shift

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our focus to the future and what

it may bring for enablement teams.

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Hi, I'm Erich Starrett.

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And I started out in the inside sales

enablement audience, listening to sales

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enablement society founding father

Scott, Santucci, and trailblazer Dr.

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Brian Lambert, and then collaborated with

them to build orchestrates sales.com.

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The global home for the

podcast and related resources

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for enablement orchestrators

and sales enablement history.

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Why?

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Well as a sales enablement history

nerd with a passion for the continued

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elevation of the profession.

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I see it as the sales enablement,

Smithsonian, and more specifically,

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an opportunity to serve you the

global enablement community.

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Together, we will revisit the wisdom of

the treasures therein as well as uncover

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some new ones with a series of special

guests, which may even include you.

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The foundation of cross-functional and

enablement orchestration was established

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in the three founding principles signed

into existence by the hundred-ish

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forefounders of the SES back in Palm

beach in: 2016

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the studio is the seven year anniversary.

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So in celebration after a year of

hiatus, we're knocking the dust off

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the orchestrate sales.com property.

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In the first episode we had sales

enablement society, founding father

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Scott Santucci as our special guest,

focusing on before the SES and

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how it almost didn't even exist.

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Today, Scott rejoins me here in the

orchestrate sales studios, as we land

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alongside the a hundred ish, four

founders in Palm beach, back in November

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of 2016, where, and when the sales

enablement society officially began.

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Scott.

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, but let's get in a time

machine and head to Palm Beach.

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So back to the article, thinking through

how we keep the organic nature of

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spreading whatever it is we were doing,

but also trying to find a way To have

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strength in numbers, I was inspired by

the Continental Congress the colonies

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used in 1776 that ultimately led to

one of the most unusual documents,

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the Declaration of Independence.

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We resolved to have a meeting where

we'd invite delegates representing

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all of the flavors of our community

and put it out there on LinkedIn.

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Given the emergent nature of the

role, we decided we're going to

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Build an organizational model

completely in support of our members

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experience and designed for growth.

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In other words, we're not going

to build silos and go down the

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path more chosen that's broken.

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Going back to that point in time, you

ended up landing in founding positions.

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Before I dive into those, anything

you'd like to say about the

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Continental Congress, how that landed

in that outcome, and is that what

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you envisioned from the beginning?

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Scott Santucci: Okay, so If we know

our history, our founding fathers

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made the Declaration of Independence,

then they fought a very long war, they

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won their Declaration, they won their

independence, they created this government

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under the Articles of Confederation,

and then they created a Constitution.

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design of how to organize would

be more akin to the Constitution.

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We're not there in that story.

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We're in the hey, how do we get A group of

delegates from different states together

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and convene to decide whether or not

we're going to declare independence and

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declare independence from who for what.

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So this is step 1 and all the

prerequisites before and why would

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we even do this in the 1st place?

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That's not how you do meetings.

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That's not how you set up groups,

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so if you go back, I said, okay,

I'm willing to put my political

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capital in my high paying management

consulting job with a bunch of other

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stuffy management consultants to

carve out space in this really

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stuffy thing to get 20 people there.

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Let's work backwards from that from

what that experience needs to look

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like to make that a good good event.

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Our goal was to get 20 people there.

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We're going to double down on the

social media lessons learned that

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I never would have learned if I if

Jill Rowley didn't challenge me and

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we didn't compare notes afterwards.

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I had to first figure out how

to explain this meeting to the

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management consulting people and see

whether or not we could get a room.

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what would that cost us.

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How do I prevent it from other partners

they're using it to try to pitch,

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how do we give it that distinction?

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How do we set up what the things are

and how do I help people realize that?

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Okay, we have to work in a lightweight.

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Creative way, but these are business

people that are going to be really annoyed

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if we don't, be buttoned down to, how

do we balance those particular things?

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So that got really stressful.

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But along the way we would put things

out and there were two key incidences

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that I thought were pretty unique

between . September and November.

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So people are like what's the agenda?

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It's I don't know.

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How am I supposed to

know what the agenda is?

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I don't know yet.

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You're either going to come or

you're not going to come, right?

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So he says, what does the meeting?

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And I said, I don't know, Terry.

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It's going to be this and this, and

we're going to cover this and it's

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going to be this kind of format.

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I'm going to run it just like the sales

and the ones that we did at Forrester.

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And . Okay.

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I'm in.

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Okay, cool.

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And that was from, he was

going to fly in from amsterdam.

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Think of the commitment that guy is taking

and the fact that he's doing it and he

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has to explain why he's going to do it.

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And he doesn't even have an agenda.

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Erich Starrett: I'm having empathy for

you thinking, wow, , this guy's doing this

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and I don't know what's going to happen,

but you put all the cards on the table.

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You did not overset expectations,

people trusted you and wanted

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to be a part of that experience.

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And they made the bet.

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Scott Santucci: But I think that the

thing is that it's the shared risk.

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That's important, right?

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Be aware that some of the people

here are flying in and they're taking

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some risks to anybody who was in

that 100 or are involved in that

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we're taking some degree of risk.

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, there isn't a button down approach.

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This is brand new.

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Jen Marie did a lot of

work to, organize it.

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Nicole did a lot of work to support it.

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Raul did a lot of work.

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We had a special role for Jen

Burns that I'll talk about later.

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I love her role that she had

in that founding meeting.

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We invited Gerhard see what happens

but I think where it really got a lot

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of momentum, and this is something

that , maybe you could broker this.

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Okay.

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I've begged for years for Bob Britton to

just talk about this one little issue.

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He said, Hey, I like what this is.

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It's the land of misfit

toys and it about it.

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And what that did is it validated a

lot of the things that we're doing.

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And in that moment he was just being Bob,

being designed or engineered or whatever.

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And the spike that we

had in activity was huge.

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So we went from a situation from,

worrying about whether 20 were going

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to be there to suddenly we've got 40

people who are committed . Now I'm

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having conversations annoying the

hell out of the events people at AGI.

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The room that you were going

to give us isn't big enough.

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Do I have to cap attendance?

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Then we go from were goal was 20

we get to 40, then we're at 50.

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We got to change venue again, who's

going to get who's going to feed

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these people, all these expenses and

people are getting anxious as hell.

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What kind of signage do

we need to have these?

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This is the feedback that I'm getting

on the . On the AGI side, should we

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escalate it to the management team?

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Then we get to 75.

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We had a hundred people show up

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. thE other thing too, is

that the conference..

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Some people were flying in early

that night, . Some people were in

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there for the sales enablement thing.

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And some people were, we're

here for, the AGI thing.

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And the crowd of people that

knew me from Forrester, it

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was a different vibe than the.

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Sort of a corporate vibe of

a management consulting firm.

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I'll let you imagine

those differences there.

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Shouting.

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Hey, Santucci

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so what happened is that Brian

arranged for everybody to meet

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beforehand for a breakfast beforehand.

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So people came in, with

a really great attitude.

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And how we ran that meeting was I first

gave a presentation, maybe I can find

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that that was about 20 minutes that

just went through, here's the history.

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And then we had three

positions that we took.

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There's the North star is

the VP of productivity.

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The 2nd, 1, is that we

recognize that there's a lot.

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Of flavors of it, and we

need to be inclusive of the

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flavors, not stomping them out.

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Is in order to make it work within a,

the latticework of a, of an organization,

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it's got to be set up and managed and

run like a business within a business.

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ANd I think that was by far the most

popular topic among among those groups.

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Zero debate about the definition because

since this is a about a vision and a

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North Star, there's no debate what

happens with definitions is they

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become grounds to exclude people.

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My turf.

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This is what it is.

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Absolutely.

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And when you debate that

all you do is argue.

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You don't, you don't

create consensus that way.

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So none of that was occurring.

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It was, this is a position.

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Do you agree with the

position or don't you?

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Yes or no.

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And debate it, argue it because we're

going to put it on paper and we're going

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to, we're going to take a position here

that the hundred of us are representing

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all the people who aren't there.

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So that's how that meeting worked.

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The first topic was, if we do

this, what will our mission be?

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And then had a draft.

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For people to react to, I learned from

that example that I shared with you

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about the VPs of sales on one side and

the VPs of marketing on the other side.

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Give somebody something for

people to react to rather than

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a clean white sheet of paper.

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Each table, I think there are about

eight tables there, had to come up with a

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position for each one of those different

parts, and then argue their position or

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state what their reaction was to that

position statement, and then we would

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say, okay, what about these elements do

we agree, and then whichever table had the

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best one, we sent them out in the room to

write it up, Moved on to the next topic.

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So the format was in each

one, it's like a gate.

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It was a mini agenda within an agenda.

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Hey, here's the frame of reference.

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Here's how we got here,

then here's the first topic.

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What would our charter be?

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I didn't come up with it, the 100

people in the room came up with it.

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Erich Starrett: Everyone's DNA was in it.

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was in it.

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Yeah.

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I love it.

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Scott Santucci: Yeah.

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Each table had their

like a tournament, right?

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Each table reacted to it.

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Each table talked about it.

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We all agreed.

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And then then we assigned

one table to go write it up.

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We also had people meeting outside to

say,, how would you set up chapters?

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What would that look like?

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Daniel was out there cause he already

got told he was going to be a chapter

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leader, but Jill Guardia was there.

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Carol Sustala was out there.

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If we did it, what, how would

it, how would you make it work?

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So the main topic were

these three positions.

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So the next position was,

Hey what are the flavors?

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In other words, what's the

scope of sales enablement?

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We had some discussion there we talked

about different viewpoints, how we

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in Virginia were being welcoming of

marketing people, product people,

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anybody who had a hand in driving

more sales, anybody we wanted to

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welcome as part of this discussion,

we didn't want to exclude anybody.

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We didn't want to say one group

knows more than the other.

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And the guy who runs the technology

marketing leaders group, Mike lock

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in front of everybody, one person by

himself, and he scolded everybody from

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being not inclusive of marketers enough.

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And I'm like, amen, brother.

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I agree.

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This is too heavy on sales

mechanics or whatever.

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We're never going to

build an inclusive group.

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If we don't have more tentacles

to be inclusive or even the word

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choices to make people that way.

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I love that he challenged everybody on

that and he was , 100 percent right.

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So what do we do to accommodate

these particular views?

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Is it reasonable that anybody's

going to be able to be the VP

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of sales productivity, which

is what the end state goal was.

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Are we going to be able to promote

and elevate the role if we don't

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have the ability to work among

and within an organization?

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Of the hundred people there,

I'd say 40 of them were VP

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level folks, major corporations.

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And none of them thought that's doable.

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You can't make this a function that

you wall off so well because You

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can't connect into the matrix of

how big corporations are organized.

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You have to be a fabric.

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You can't be a silo.

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We had some tough times.

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We had one guy stand up and say.

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Hey I disagree that we can

be the VP of productivity.

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If we put that out there,

I'm going to get fired.

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That's when I thought Robert

Peterson shined the most.

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He basically said, so you're just going

to basically say that all organizations

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have to be organized the way that

they're organized this way forever.

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That doesn't make sense.

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You can change your

organizational structure.

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That's in your control, right there.

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There's the value of having

an academic in the room.

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Because if somebody in a corporate

environment won't ever think

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they can talk that way, but it's

ridiculous to think that you can't

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ever change your organization because

you can, it's in your control.

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And by the way, in that moment,

Sheevaun said, I'm going to do that.

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I want to do that role.

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That's going to be my role.

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Erich Starrett: And she proved it.

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Scott Santucci: Yeah.

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She, and she's proved it right.

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She said that in that room right there.

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And another person that really was

exciting to me around that space

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and time was Chris Kingman, and

he challenged us all saying, you

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guys are a bunch of old people.

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He didn't say it this way.

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Okay.

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I'm just paraphrasing.

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Erich Starrett: You have

creative license, Scott.

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Go.

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Scott Santucci: I do get creative license.

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But clearly everybody knows

if you're listening to us,

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I'm bragging on him, right?

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Of course.

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Yes.

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But he says, Hey, you guys

are a bunch of old people.

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You're not representing the

voices of any millennials.

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I'm like, damn, you're spot on.

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He's exactly right.

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How do we create more room

to have those voices heard?

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Erich Starrett: What about were there

key players that spoke out in the

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sales enablement is a cross functional

problem and to be successful should be

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run as a business within a business?

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Scott Santucci: I talked about

Mike challenging everybody

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, you're being exclusive.

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You're not factoring in marketing.

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I very much agreed with that.

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I think after that, the

discussion about business within

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a business had so much energy.

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Each table had their own spin on it.

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And each table had their

own way of talking about it.

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That was additive.

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In group public environments,

it gets presented as one way and

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people debate how that won't work.

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But what happened in the room was

this is a great foundation and on,

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on this foundation, I can change

this out or swap this in, but I

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can still make the foundation work

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instead of it's an answer.

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It's an architecture.

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And because of this architecture, this

allows me to do these kinds of things.

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And with people with a large span

of control is really helpful.

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So the debate wasn't debate.

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It was, yeah, and you could do this

and we could build this on top of that.

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And this structure has to be here

and you have to bound it this

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way because of these reasons.

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It's not a creative debate to let

everybody have their own answer.

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It was because this is a architecture,

the boundaries create the things

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to enable success to happen.

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If we embrace the constraints of

this, it allows us to do way more.

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: 00:18:20

If we keep tweaking it and debating

it 80 ways to Sunday it's worthless.

321

: 00:18:24

So I wouldn't say there was any one.

322

: 00:18:27

It was so collaborative.

323

: 00:18:29

If anything.

324

: 00:18:30

I had to be really mindful to

to stop the conversations and

325

: 00:18:36

say, so what do we agree on?

326

: 00:18:38

What will we publish?

327

: 00:18:40

Because we still had to write

up, the things we agreed on.

328

: 00:18:45

Then before we go, everybody

has to sign this document.

329

: 00:18:50

So we made this thing in the

back that everybody had to sign.

330

: 00:18:54

And I also had a rule.

331

: 00:18:56

It must be unanimous.

332

: 00:18:58

Oh, that's great.

333

: 00:18:59

Whatever we agree on, we have to document.

334

: 00:19:03

That's why people in the room

went and documented those things.

335

: 00:19:05

We assembled it together.

336

: 00:19:08

Then we have to read it out.

337

: 00:19:10

We have to have a unanimous agreement.

338

: 00:19:11

But before we do any of that, we

have what my favorite role was.

339

: 00:19:16

I mentioned Jen Burns.

340

: 00:19:17

Yeah.

341

: 00:19:18

Jen Burns role the entire time

wasn't really to participate.

342

: 00:19:24

It was to take notes for

people who weren't there.

343

: 00:19:28

Her job was to challenge all of us

collectively from the point of view

344

: 00:19:33

of people like her, in the room.

345

: 00:19:36

And I, I just think it's a stroke of

genius because Jen's a little bit cynical.

346

: 00:19:40

Anyway, you'd never know it meeting

her, but she is, and to give her this

347

: 00:19:45

kind of cynical role to challenge us

and be combative, and she was so great.

348

: 00:19:52

It's you guys said this and this,

what the hell does this mean?

349

: 00:19:55

And she was, she played the

role perfectly and I was like,

350

: 00:19:58

these are all great points.

351

: 00:20:00

Do we agree that we're now

just speaking our own language?

352

: 00:20:03

Let's answer her questions.

353

: 00:20:06

They're legitimate questions.

354

: 00:20:08

Let's answer them.

355

: 00:20:10

And it was great because it made

things even tighter, which facilitated

356

: 00:20:15

the, okay, let's go through.

357

: 00:20:17

Have we been thorough?

358

: 00:20:19

Did we do this?

359

: 00:20:20

Did we do that?

360

: 00:20:21

Did we do this?

361

: 00:20:22

Do we unanimously agree on these things?

362

: 00:20:25

And we got unanimous agreement.

363

: 00:20:27

Great.

364

: 00:20:28

Now what I'd like you to do is based

on that, go sign that document because

365

: 00:20:31

you guys all did it and that you're

assigning this, you're committing

366

: 00:20:35

yourselves to making this work.

367

: 00:20:37

And that was the meeting.

368

: 00:20:39

Erich Starrett: That's phenomenal.

369

: 00:20:41

I would love for the museum to have

the signed document and the Jen

370

: 00:20:47

Burns notes, the bad cop notes.

371

: 00:20:50

Scott Santucci: But we have some

pictures of one of my favorite

372

: 00:20:53

pictures is Jen's with the

microphone sort of challenging us.

373

: 00:20:57

Erich Starrett: Scott, what a neat peek

into the room where it happened literally.

374

: 00:21:02

Do you feel like they apply today?

375

: 00:21:05

Scott Santucci: We did publish, what

the rules were for the meeting and

376

: 00:21:08

people were expected to read periods.

377

: 00:21:11

So would I say.

378

: 00:21:12

That meeting format is applicable today.

379

: 00:21:16

100%.

380

: 00:21:17

Would I say giving people

pre reads and having well

381

: 00:21:20

documented rules before meetings?

382

: 00:21:23

Absolutely.

383

: 00:21:23

I think that's important.

384

: 00:21:25

And the forcing function of saying,

we're going to accomplish these things

385

: 00:21:29

and no one leaves until they're done.

386

: 00:21:32

I would say having a gated process

to follow definitely is something

387

: 00:21:39

that is is very important.

388

: 00:21:41

And then you could say, what were

the outcomes on the three positions?

389

: 00:21:43

Are the three positions still valid?

390

: 00:21:46

I think the point is just

like you would critique.

391

: 00:21:49

Okay.

392

: 00:21:50

The Declaration of Independence

says nothing about how the

393

: 00:21:53

country is going to be organized.

394

: 00:21:55

It basically just says, hey, king,

it's silly that you have power.

395

: 00:22:02

We think that power, we

think God gives us the power.

396

: 00:22:07

And we think that the, that a good

ruler is at the consent of the governed.

397

: 00:22:12

And these are the reasons

why we think you're a tyrant.

398

: 00:22:16

And because of that, we break up.

399

: 00:22:18

That's...

400

: 00:22:19

That's the gist of what the

Declaration of Independence is.

401

: 00:22:22

When those people signed it,

they were committing treason.

402

: 00:22:25

What happens to you in 1776 is

you get drawn and quartered.

403

: 00:22:30

So by signing it, they're

signing their death sentence.

404

: 00:22:32

These people came to a meeting where

thEy didn't know what to expect.

405

: 00:22:37

Some people from their time, some

people made the risk of of doing

406

: 00:22:41

it, and they signed their names to

something they had the courage . We

407

: 00:22:46

created the right environment

so that the debate could occur.

408

: 00:22:49

They argued and they allowed

the best ideas to emerge.

409

: 00:22:53

Erich Starrett: The formalized.

410

: 00:22:55

Three positions of the society.

411

: 00:22:58

Scott Santucci: This group of people in

relation to the topic of sales enablement

412

: 00:23:03

are saying these are our positions so

I would say that the sales enablement

413

: 00:23:09

society is built on those three positions.

414

: 00:23:13

Those three possessions are the

founding bedrock of what the sales

415

: 00:23:18

enablement society was built upon.

416

: 00:23:21

One, you're going to promote and elevate

the role with the end destination

417

: 00:23:26

to be the VP of sales productivity.

418

: 00:23:30

Two, there are four flavors of sales

enablement that have to do with

419

: 00:23:36

friction points between human resources

and sales, marketing and sales.

420

: 00:23:44

administration and sales

and finance and sales.

421

: 00:23:49

So these friction points exist.

422

: 00:23:52

The only way those friction points

can be resolved is if you look

423

: 00:23:56

at it through a business process

lens, not a departmental level.

424

: 00:24:01

lens

425

: 00:24:02

Position number three.

426

: 00:24:04

The only way to do that.

427

: 00:24:07

Is if you're building competencies

based on running your department

428

: 00:24:12

as a business within a business

429

: 00:24:14

said differently, what does it mean?

430

: 00:24:16

It doesn't mean sales enablement

is the head of training.

431

: 00:24:21

It doesn't mean sales enablement

only means this and it excludes

432

: 00:24:25

that sales enablement isn't defined

as a charter department and you

433

: 00:24:30

declare victory with a budget.

434

: 00:24:32

No,

435

: 00:24:33

you have to build a charter, you have to

run it as a business within a business,

436

: 00:24:37

you have to always find more ways of

adding value, you have to find more ways

437

: 00:24:41

of any more money, you have to find more

ways of satisfying your constituencies.

438

: 00:24:47

tHat's the contrast.

439

: 00:24:49

That's the bedrock of which the sales

enablement society was built upon

440

: 00:24:55

organizational structure, the concept of

an experience, all of that comes later.

441

: 00:25:02

100 people, 40 of whom were from

VP titles in huge companies.

442

: 00:25:07

60 from a variety of other subject

matter experts that you can go and trace

443

: 00:25:11

down, who those people were that sales

enablement, we take these three positions.

444

: 00:25:16

Erich Starrett: What

a great legacy, Scott.

445

: 00:25:19

And one that there's such opportunity

to still, it's still so relevant today.

446

: 00:25:26

What do you see next as the

founder and father of the society?

447

: 00:25:33

And how would you

encapsulate all of that?

448

: 00:25:36

As the walk away this is how

we can benefit from it today.

449

: 00:25:41

Scott Santucci: oKay.

450

: 00:25:42

So what I would say is.

451

: 00:25:45

I'm not really caught up in the founder

of sales enablement or anything like that.

452

: 00:25:52

What I am is focused on

solving a business problem.

453

: 00:25:58

The business problem is this companies

B2B companies spend an exorbitant

454

: 00:26:06

amount of money on sales and marketing.

455

: 00:26:08

They're not getting the return on that.

456

: 00:26:10

They focusing more and more on activities

and activities and getting further and

457

: 00:26:14

further focused away from customers.

458

: 00:26:17

The growth potential for any business

is to understand their customers.

459

: 00:26:23

Understand what their commercial

experience is and design

460

: 00:26:28

their system accordingly.

461

: 00:26:30

Given that if people were practicing,

because I've been practicing each

462

: 00:26:36

of those foundational principles,

what does productivity look like?

463

: 00:26:42

In order to have that conversation,

you have to have lots of debates with

464

: 00:26:47

operational people and finance people.

465

: 00:26:50

You can't just immediately just

walk up and say, here's a document

466

: 00:26:54

from Gartner or somebody and

says, here's what it looks like.

467

: 00:26:57

Give me stuff.

468

: 00:26:59

I believe that there are some

great metrics the building off of

469

: 00:27:03

that idea, I co created with TCB,

this concept of commercial ratio.

470

: 00:27:09

Anybody can adopt commercial ratio.

471

: 00:27:11

I

472

: 00:27:11

a hidden cost model to help

demonstrate quantifiably,

473

: 00:27:17

verifiably, and objectively what.

474

: 00:27:21

sales productivity looks like.

475

: 00:27:23

It is not subjective.

476

: 00:27:25

You can debate all you want to about

individual sales people or whatever.

477

: 00:27:29

None of that moves the needle.

478

: 00:27:32

So in terms of the bucket of what sales

productivity looks like there's been a

479

: 00:27:37

lot of great work that's done around that.

480

: 00:27:40

We can create space to have

those conversations and

481

: 00:27:42

share what those lessons are.

482

: 00:27:45

The next bucket . I think that

people have gotten so focused.

483

: 00:27:50

On defining a job and a department

and who owns what, that the idea

484

: 00:27:59

that sales is a team sport, if you

want caught revenue, that's great.

485

: 00:28:03

But revenue you have to factor in

a lot of accounting factor that in

486

: 00:28:07

that growth is a team sport is lost.

487

: 00:28:13

That most people are no, it's

about the MQL and sales won't do

488

: 00:28:17

this and marketing won't do that.

489

: 00:28:18

None of that is helpful.

490

: 00:28:20

The basic facts are, is that

what you do with your product

491

: 00:28:25

has a lot to do with sales.

492

: 00:28:27

What you do with finance and how you

measure things and how you set up your

493

: 00:28:31

organization has a lot to do with sales.

494

: 00:28:35

How you deploy your Salesforce and

how do you simplify what you're

495

: 00:28:39

doing has a lot to do with sales

496

: 00:28:42

and the role and responsibilities

that you cast and whether or not you

497

: 00:28:46

have marketing people actually in

the trenches doing things, or whether

498

: 00:28:50

they're just making stuff , on the

sidelines has a lot to do with sales

499

: 00:28:55

because, to customers, they

can sense the misalignment.

500

: 00:29:01

80 ways to Sunday sooner or later.

501

: 00:29:04

They're going to opt it, opt out if,

and they have so many other choices.

502

: 00:29:09

Then the third bucket would be running

as a business within a business.

503

: 00:29:13

That's not rocket science.

504

: 00:29:14

Somehow people take it rocket

science because they worry about

505

: 00:29:17

whether they're writing the

perfect charter statement or not.

506

: 00:29:21

Or they worry about all of these

things that don't matter and

507

: 00:29:25

they're not paying attention.

508

: 00:29:27

They're not right.

509

: 00:29:28

They're not envisioning it like

they're eight years old and setting

510

: 00:29:32

up their lemonade stand, what matters?

511

: 00:29:34

What kind of lemonade are you making?

512

: 00:29:37

Do you have two scoops of sugar in it?

513

: 00:29:38

Or do you have or do you have people

making so many different variations

514

: 00:29:42

of lemonade, you have no idea how

to keep track of your inventory?

515

: 00:29:45

Do you, do you get the

lemonade out to people on time?

516

: 00:29:49

Do you follow up and feedback with them?

517

: 00:29:51

Or do you just assume because it was

a hundred degrees out and they're

518

: 00:29:54

going, Oh, thank God for this.

519

: 00:29:55

That they, they think

your lemonade is awesome.

520

: 00:29:58

Maybe when it's 80 degrees out

and no one's there, maybe it was

521

: 00:30:03

because of other other conditions.

522

: 00:30:06

So there's all of these basic, simple

things that people just ignore that

523

: 00:30:11

if you're running your group as a

business, one of the business, you,

524

: 00:30:14

you can be not only adding more value

to the business, but you can also be

525

: 00:30:20

identifying functions that aren't adding

value to the business and, acquire them.

526

: 00:30:25

You can actually do hostile

takeovers and things like that.

527

: 00:30:28

There's so many things that you can

do if you're running your department

528

: 00:30:32

as a business with a business.

529

: 00:30:33

If you're just taking orders from

people and saying, I want to report to

530

: 00:30:37

the head of sales or I want to report

here, I want to report there because

531

: 00:30:40

they get me you put yourself at risk.

532

: 00:30:43

So I think though the wisdom and

the power of those three positions.

533

: 00:30:50

By staying constantly focused on building

out from them is a gigantic opportunity

534

: 00:30:58

to constantly doing what I observe

that's happening is a constant

535

: 00:31:02

reinvention of, name changes, or we

call it this, or we've always called

536

: 00:31:07

it that and constant disagreement.

537

: 00:31:09

You get nowhere.

538

: 00:31:10

You don't look serious to, to, to CEOs.

539

: 00:31:14

You become on the chopping

block for every CFO.

540

: 00:31:19

And I know these things because

I'm having these conversations

541

: 00:31:22

at the executive levels.

542

: 00:31:24

So I think that the opportunity really is

these are foundations to be built upon.

543

: 00:31:33

They're not just statements

out in the world that hey,

544

: 00:31:36

people aren't ordering that up.

545

: 00:31:38

That's not the way you build things.

546

: 00:31:40

In 1776, nobody thought that a group of 13

colonies were even going to win the war.

547

: 00:31:46

Let alone be the biggest

economic power in the world.

548

: 00:31:50

Erich Starrett: And the battle

continues seven years later, Scott.

549

: 00:31:53

Thank you so much for being a catalyst

for all of this and for your time today.

550

: 00:31:59

It's super meaningful to hear you,

especially on this anniversary every

551

: 00:32:04

time I speak with you, I uncover new

fascinating tidbits of enablement

552

: 00:32:09

history that inform such a huge

opportunity that still exists today.

553

: 00:32:15

Three foundational positions.

554

: 00:32:17

A gift that you and the collective

group and the collective

555

: 00:32:21

wisdom have given the world.

556

: 00:32:23

Maybe we can frame it up on

the way that you and the group.

557

: 00:32:28

Framed that first experience

around exactly that , the

558

: 00:32:32

experience that it's everything

there were seven Es of experience.

559

: 00:32:36

I believe that were the foundation

for that first global meeting.

560

: 00:32:41

That followed up about a year thereafter.

561

: 00:32:44

Would you consider that to be the

key element of that next meeting

562

: 00:32:48

as the three founding positions

were in this inaugural Congress?

563

: 00:32:54

Scott Santucci: Yeah, I think just

like the country had to figure

564

: 00:32:57

out they had to fight a war.

565

: 00:32:59

Let's not just gloss over.

566

: 00:33:01

Oh, Declaration of Independence.

567

: 00:33:03

And then there was the Constitution.

568

: 00:33:04

Along the way, a whole bunch

of people who were volunteers.

569

: 00:33:10

Somehow George Washington to keep

everybody together and keep them fighting.

570

: 00:33:15

Somebody had to provide that,

Thomas Paine gave him great things

571

: 00:33:18

of what they're fighting for.

572

: 00:33:20

And they did the impossible.

573

: 00:33:23

Then they had to figure out

how to govern themselves.

574

: 00:33:27

There was a point in time that

some of them were willing to accept

575

: 00:33:31

the king of Germany to run them.

576

: 00:33:35

They couldn't run themselves.

577

: 00:33:38

And of course that caused

people to just lose their crap.

578

: 00:33:41

That's what led to the constitution.

579

: 00:33:43

So it's part of, it's part of like

really understanding how things work.

580

: 00:33:48

And how human nature works.

581

: 00:33:50

Okay.

582

: 00:33:50

The declaration that was great.

583

: 00:33:51

It was a great event.

584

: 00:33:54

Now, what do you do there

and follow up from that?

585

: 00:33:56

What are all the battles that happened

between, that was November 16th.

586

: 00:34:01

What about the next big event?

587

: 00:34:04

It's what can this group of sales

enablement people accomplish?

588

: 00:34:08

Can they accomplish growth objectives?

589

: 00:34:11

Because that's what we set out

to do in: 2017

590

: 00:34:15

these things, let's prove this

group of people can do that.

591

: 00:34:19

So how do you set up a charter with

the whole goal of running yourself

592

: 00:34:25

like a business within a business,

embracing the constraints that were

593

: 00:34:29

told to us are really empowering, and

then setting up an organizational model

594

: 00:34:34

to achieve growth objectives that no

one would sign up for beforehand.

595

: 00:34:39

The next topic really should be an

understanding of why the charter for

596

: 00:34:46

2017 was set up the way it was set up

because I just fundamentally do not

597

: 00:34:52

believe people understand or appreciate

why the things were done the way they

598

: 00:34:56

are, how they were set up 100 percent to

practice and build upon the foundational

599

: 00:35:04

things that were set out in that meeting.

600

: 00:35:07

So I think that's way more important.

601

: 00:35:10

The principles are secondary.

602

: 00:35:13

Organizational structures are secondary.

603

: 00:35:16

The goal is what are we

trying to prove here?

604

: 00:35:18

What's our purpose?

605

: 00:35:19

What are we trying to do?

606

: 00:35:21

And we're trying to demonstrate in

front of the entire world, we're going

607

: 00:35:24

to do an experiment just like the

United States is a big experiment.

608

: 00:35:30

It's the way they talked

about it,: 1776

609

: 00:35:34

We set ourselves up as

a big experiment too.

610

: 00:35:36

Can a group of people come

together and drive a growth agenda?

611

: 00:35:42

And the answer is yes.

612

: 00:35:44

That was exceedingly successful

based on the specific stated

613

: 00:35:49

goals that were set out.

614

: 00:35:51

What was accomplished during what

period of time with no money only

615

: 00:35:55

volunteer resources and part time work,

616

: 00:35:58

Understanding those mechanics is far

more important than what the principles

617

: 00:36:03

were and everything like that.

618

: 00:36:05

Erich Starrett: Got it.

619

: 00:36:05

So would you call that body of

work, then the constitution?

620

: 00:36:10

And do you feel like you accomplished the

constitution or is that still to come?

621

: 00:36:14

Scott Santucci: I don't know.

622

: 00:36:16

Erich Starrett: Fair answer.

623

: 00:36:17

Scott Santucci: what I would say

is our founding fathers had the

624

: 00:36:21

history that there were two things

that you had to do in order to get

625

: 00:36:27

the Constitutional Convention going.

626

: 00:36:29

One, you had to figure out,

did the law exist in the first

627

: 00:36:33

place and why would you do it?

628

: 00:36:35

In other words, what is our purpose?

629

: 00:36:36

If we're going to convene,

what purpose do we have?

630

: 00:36:40

Everybody had an equal vote.

631

: 00:36:42

So how do you get agreement on what

do you want to do in the first place,

632

: 00:36:47

Step two then is what is the

construct that you put together?

633

: 00:36:50

What is the organizational structure?

634

: 00:36:53

Our founding fathers, the first

part, there was no precedent

635

: 00:36:57

in history to sort out.

636

: 00:36:59

But the latter part they used models

637

: 00:37:02

Like Madison, who had the Virginia Plan

that most of it is built on, studied a

638

: 00:37:07

lot of other, he studied the Roman model,

he was very influenced by the Florentine

639

: 00:37:13

Republic he made some corrections and some

adjustments, he talked to his buddy Thomas

640

: 00:37:18

Jefferson, who's very much anti anybody

to where they get the checks and balances.

641

: 00:37:23

And they argued vehemently to

where no one group would have

642

: 00:37:27

more power than the other.

643

: 00:37:29

Because they knew that they wouldn't be

able to get buy in from everybody else.

644

: 00:37:32

They had all that precedent.

645

: 00:37:35

We had precedent from

other things to steal from.

646

: 00:37:37

But the big issue was how do you go

from having that meeting to, okay,

647

: 00:37:43

why should I listen to you and how

do you get volunteers to do anything?

648

: 00:37:49

And then how do you model out

the exact problems that you wanna

649

: 00:37:53

exist to solve in the first place?

650

: 00:37:56

So what I would say is

there's probably two parts.

651

: 00:37:58

Part A, how do you define how do you

move from a state that isn't working

652

: 00:38:04

to a state that's workable and give

it an identity when nobody even knows

653

: 00:38:08

the vocabulary to talk about it?

654

: 00:38:10

Just like.

655

: 00:38:11

How in the world would you come

up with a constitution when

656

: 00:38:15

a constitution didn't exist?

657

: 00:38:16

And there was no basis on how to do it.

658

: 00:38:19

And you had 13 colonies acting like their

own, they were printing their own money.

659

: 00:38:23

They were all more or less

their own individual countries.

660

: 00:38:27

How do you get them to agree?

661

: 00:38:28

That's one problem.

662

: 00:38:31

The second problem then would be.

663

: 00:38:34

How do you construct it?

664

: 00:38:35

I would say those are the two biggest

missing pieces that are the most inclusive

665

: 00:38:41

to the entire sales enablement story.

666

: 00:38:44

Erich Starrett: And still being

defined and built as we speak.

667

: 00:38:48

So it sounds like the answer is, we

aren't at constitution as of yet.

668

: 00:38:53

Scott Santucci: I Would say that

the Constitution did exist in: 2017

669

: 00:38:59

I would say that post that people have

chosen to not, if you don't follow the

670

: 00:39:03

law if you don't set up the adjudication

process to evaluate things if you don't

671

: 00:39:08

put cases in front of the Supreme Court

there's the Constitution doesn't work.

672

: 00:39:13

I would say that's what's happened.

673

: 00:39:16

THere was a constitution.

674

: 00:39:19

I don't know what the name changes

and things like that, whether any

675

: 00:39:22

of those things have been changed

or whatever, or where we just go to

676

: 00:39:25

corporate bylaws and think that you

can just check checklist corporate

677

: 00:39:28

bylaws and think that's the same thing.

678

: 00:39:31

I don't know, but I do know that it's

directly related to the concept of

679

: 00:39:35

running a business within a business.

680

: 00:39:37

When you set up a business, you

don't just do checklists and say,

681

: 00:39:42

okay, we're a thriving company.

682

: 00:39:44

I would say categorically, there was

a constitution that was followed.

683

: 00:39:51

There was a power base

established that was followed.

684

: 00:39:55

It did work.

685

: 00:39:56

It worked exceptionally, exceedingly well.

686

: 00:39:59

And I would say in my observation it's

not being followed, discussed, thought of.

687

: 00:40:04

It's been ignored.

688

: 00:40:06

And I think these are the same kinds of

problems that prevent sales enablement

689

: 00:40:10

entities from thriving inside their own

companies, it's like a meta problem.

690

: 00:40:15

Erich Starrett: And it sounds to

me like a meta opportunity, Scott.

691

: 00:40:19

Scott Santucci: Correct.

692

: 00:40:20

Erich Starrett: For the society to

further solidify and regain authority.

693

: 00:40:25

Scott Santucci: Yeah.

694

: 00:40:25

Or it could just be like it

could be for just a group of

695

: 00:40:28

four people that, want to do it.

696

: 00:40:30

It, it doesn't need to be for the society.

697

: 00:40:32

Anybody can say, I want to dedicate or

learn more about the founding principles.

698

: 00:40:37

You got to go through the battles

and that's what the debate and the

699

: 00:40:41

cross referencing and the challenging

does is it turns an idea into

700

: 00:40:46

something solid, it transforms an

idea into an executable insight.

701

: 00:40:51

And then when you have stories about

how it works, then it becomes real.

702

: 00:40:56

Erich Starrett: Scott, I have an "ask."

703

: 00:40:58

I would like to raise my hand

to consolidate all of this.

704

: 00:41:03

I would love to get those

additional pieces of information

705

: 00:41:05

if you can find them.

706

: 00:41:07

My ask is the opportunity

to present those to you.

707

: 00:41:13

Let's call it the constitution and to

take a look at what would it look like

708

: 00:41:19

whether it's 4 people or 400 right to

reinvigorate what occurred 7 years ago

709

: 00:41:28

and, get a little bit more of the secret

sauce, the things that happened behind

710

: 00:41:34

the scenes, a lot of which you've shared

today, and maybe fill in some of those

711

: 00:41:39

blanks and have something that can be

offered out to the potential "we.".

712

: 00:41:49

Is that a collaboration you'd be

willing to do with me and to share that

713

: 00:41:53

history and create the opportunity?

714

: 00:41:57

Scott Santucci: Sure.

715

: 00:41:57

I would say that a good idea

might be, let's start with

716

: 00:42:01

from colonies to continent, continental

convention to declaration of independence.

717

: 00:42:07

Erich Starrett: Okay.

718

: 00:42:08

Scott Santucci: Get those things down.

719

: 00:42:10

You don't know that but you're mixing

too many things with the declaration.

720

: 00:42:14

There's so much there.

721

: 00:42:16

Saying, here are the foundational

elements, these three things.

722

: 00:42:20

Just because they're three and

because they're stated simply doesn't

723

: 00:42:24

mean they're not super powerful.

724

: 00:42:26

There's tremendous implication

in each one of those three

725

: 00:42:31

individually and then collectively.

726

: 00:42:34

Understanding the strategic

importance and impact of those

727

: 00:42:38

things is a really big deal.

728

: 00:42:40

A big opportunity.

729

: 00:42:42

Erich Starrett: You have my curiosity and

I'm excited to, I'll say unpack each of

730

: 00:42:48

the three and join you in that journey.

731

: 00:42:52

Scott Santucci: Awesome.

732

: 00:42:54

Erich Starrett: Scott, thanks so much for

your time again and happy anniversary.

733

: 00:42:58

VoiceOverGuy: Thanks for

joining us to become an insider

734

: 00:43:01

and amplify your journey.

735

: 00:43:02

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