ISEs3 Ep6: Christopher Kingman​ - SES Fore-founder, RES + Emblaze Exec Board Member

Erich Starrett: 00:00:00

Hello, everyone.

2

: 00:00:00

Today we have Mr.

3

: 00:00:03

Chris Kingman, coming hot off

the SKO train at TransUnion.

4

: 00:00:09

And he is also, if you don't know,

a member of the executive board

5

: 00:00:14

who's got a few ideas up his sleeve

about the possibility that someone,

6

: 00:00:19

even me, might be able to be,

my words, an MBA in enablement.

7

: 00:00:25

Chris, let's start there.

8

: 00:00:26

Anything I missed in your vast,

wide, and global portfolio

9

: 00:00:31

Christopher Kingman: Thanks, Erich.

10

: 00:00:32

I can proudly say I'm also a member

of the advisory board for Emblaze, the

11

: 00:00:38

professional sales leadership network.

12

: 00:00:40

I have a foot in each pond, if you will.

13

: 00:00:42

, Erich Starrett: I would say

you have a foot in each ocean.

14

: 00:00:45

I got a big toe in each pond here.

15

: 00:00:47

I'm, , president of the

Atlanta chapter of the RES.

16

: 00:00:50

And,, recently the

board here with Emblaze.

17

: 00:00:52

So I have a lot to learn

from you, big brother.

18

: 00:00:55

And, love hearing that talk track.

19

: 00:00:57

I think we're onto something.

20

: 00:00:59

So today, you know what, let's go ahead

and start out with super simple, . When

21

: 00:01:04

did you first hear the words sales

enablement and what did they mean to you?

22

: 00:01:10

Christopher Kingman:

That's a good question.

23

: 00:01:11

, I think in maybe 2015, 2014, I

built a small enablement and

24

: 00:01:18

support team within TransUnion in

a local office in South Florida.

25

: 00:01:23

And , the manager that I was

assigned to somebody based on an

26

: 00:01:26

acquisition, the question was,

Hey, what do you want to go do?

27

: 00:01:29

And I said, I want to go do this

thing called sales enablement.

28

: 00:01:32

And I was on LinkedIn trying

to understand, the evolution

29

: 00:01:35

of sales operations, sales

training and development.

30

: 00:01:38

I was building, , product training,

product demos, new hire onboarding.

31

: 00:01:43

And consistently every kind of article

I would come across would say, what

32

: 00:01:48

is sales enablement, what's this

thing, and you pull on that thread.

33

: 00:01:52

It started to unravel rather quickly.

34

: 00:01:55

There's a lot of emerging opinions

and emerging kind of ideas on it.

35

: 00:01:59

The big consulting firms were

all kind of putting their pieces

36

: 00:02:02

together and their stances.

37

: 00:02:04

, and I think it all culminated

with the founding of, the

38

: 00:02:07

society as a LinkedIn group.

39

: 00:02:09

And some of the early works of

, those wonderful folks driving the

40

: 00:02:13

conversation and being very open.

41

: 00:02:16

About conversing with anybody who had

anything to say about it, that drew me in,

42

: 00:02:21

, and then stars align and the first meeting

was 30 minutes, 45 minutes up the street.

43

: 00:02:28

Otherwise, I probably wouldn't have

flown across the country for that.

44

: 00:02:31

So I drove up to the meeting, , and

I got to see, , a lot of these

45

: 00:02:36

people that I've been exchanging

with online and they knew who I was.

46

: 00:02:41

They were like, hey, it's good to see you.

47

: 00:02:44

Thanks for coming.

48

: 00:02:45

I did the first signed the statements that

everybody signed, worked on the definition

49

: 00:02:49

Erich Starrett: Awesome.

50

: 00:02:50

Christopher Kingman: and that was it.

51

: 00:02:51

It was off to the races.

52

: 00:02:53

, and then over the years, just.

53

: 00:02:55

More and more both staying on

top of the research and being

54

: 00:02:58

in, invested in the research.

55

: 00:03:00

Ingesting as much as I could in the

earlier parts of my career, , and

56

: 00:03:04

then volunteering here and there with

the society, , being on the advisory

57

: 00:03:09

board, , doing a lot of kind of side

projects and then eventually being

58

: 00:03:13

asked to join the board as well.

59

: 00:03:15

Erich Starrett: Wow.

60

: 00:03:16

What a storied history.

61

: 00:03:19

You might be the winner in the

past, present and future categories.

62

: 00:03:25

So you already jumped into

my question number two.

63

: 00:03:28

So maybe I'll throw you a little

bit of a curve which is where, when,

64

: 00:03:31

and how does the sales enablement

now revenue enablement we'll get

65

: 00:03:35

there in a minute, fit into your

timeline and professional journey.

66

: 00:03:39

You were there at the original.

67

: 00:03:41

You're one of the 100 ish.

68

: 00:03:44

I hear fore founders.

69

: 00:03:46

So thank you for that.

70

: 00:03:47

Now on the executive board.

71

: 00:03:49

Curious.

72

: 00:03:50

, along that journey.

73

: 00:03:51

Can you in that meeting?

74

: 00:03:53

Are there 456 10 people you remember?

75

: 00:03:56

Part of it is my personal treasure hunt

I'm on to identify the hundred, right?

76

: 00:04:02

So maybe we could take it offline and

you can rattle off as many folks as

77

: 00:04:05

you can remember were in that room,

the room where it happened, right?

78

: 00:04:08

, but are there a couple folks that

stick out early on, , that maybe

79

: 00:04:12

you're even still in touch with and

are still part of the evolution?

80

: 00:04:16

Christopher Kingman: Sure, , we all

know Scott was there and doing most

81

: 00:04:18

of the work with Scott Santucci.

82

: 00:04:20

Erich Starrett: Oh, okay.

83

: 00:04:21

Yeah.

84

: 00:04:22

I've heard of him.

85

: 00:04:23

Christopher Kingman: He's going to mention

I was there, so I'll talk about him

86

: 00:04:25

being there, Scott commands attention.

87

: 00:04:27

He did an awesome job of

driving the conversation.

88

: 00:04:31

It was interesting to go to something that

I thought at the time was like, wow, I

89

: 00:04:36

don't know what I'm going to get when I go

to, I just, I know I got a strong feeling.

90

: 00:04:41

I got to be there.

91

: 00:04:42

I got to go see what this is about.

92

: 00:04:43

And you can tell very quickly, like

there is some intention behind doing this.

93

: 00:04:47

We're not just, no, we're

not in a room full of.

94

: 00:04:49

People,, just talking about the

weather, like there was some things

95

: 00:04:53

that needed to get out in the open and

discussed and aligned and agreed upon.

96

: 00:04:56

It was a successful meeting.

97

: 00:04:58

I don't know if we would have

made it this far if we didn't have

98

: 00:05:02

the engagement and the outcome.

99

: 00:05:03

And a lot of people traveled very

far, , to be there, Thierry came

100

: 00:05:09

from the Netherlands, I believe.

101

: 00:05:10

. And you had lots of big names.

102

: 00:05:12

You had Gerhardt there.

103

: 00:05:13

You had a bunch of other folks.

104

: 00:05:15

Jill Rowley was there.

105

: 00:05:16

, you had,

106

: 00:05:17

Erich Starrett: She always is mentioned

that we're six or seven for six or seven.

107

: 00:05:21

Rowley is always.

108

: 00:05:22

And that's yeah, I love that.

109

: 00:05:24

She was there.

110

: 00:05:24

Christopher Kingman: She played a

very, impactful role in the early

111

: 00:05:27

days, was very generous with her time.

112

: 00:05:29

When people want to talk to her

about hey, how do we grow this?

113

: 00:05:31

What do we do?

114

: 00:05:33

How do we grow my network?

115

: 00:05:34

Just an awesome person to know, right?

116

: 00:05:36

Like influencer for sure.

117

: 00:05:39

But when you actually sit down and talk to

this person, they had something for you.

118

: 00:05:43

Even when you had nothing,

I had nothing to offer her.

119

: 00:05:45

And she still gave me value.

120

: 00:05:46

It was great.

121

: 00:05:48

,

my favorite person enabled my Rob Peterson was there.

122

: 00:05:50

Cause obviously Rob takes every

chance to pot shot me and remind

123

: 00:05:54

me that I'm much younger than him.

124

: 00:05:56

Erich Starrett: Dr.

125

: 00:05:57

Rob.

126

: 00:05:58

Christopher Kingman: Still

keep in touch with Rob a lot.

127

: 00:05:59

And every time he's got an enablement

question, , I feel very honored that

128

: 00:06:02

he always reaches out to me for help..

129

: 00:06:04

That's where I met Rob

and I met Howard Dover

130

: 00:06:06

Erich Starrett: yes.

131

: 00:06:06

. Doctor Dover.

132

: 00:06:08

That's awesome.

133

: 00:06:09

He's got a book too.

134

: 00:06:10

I got to get him on the show.

135

: 00:06:11

Talk it up.

136

: 00:06:12

Christopher Kingman: you should,

it was an amazing experience.

137

: 00:06:14

The thing that always gets brought

up, especially when I guess I get

138

: 00:06:18

looped into the conversation is.

139

: 00:06:19

I was the youngest person in that room.

140

: 00:06:22

,

Erich Starrett: That's cool.

141

: 00:06:23

Christopher Kingman: Now,

I don't care about that.

142

: 00:06:25

People, of other generations tend to make

a big deal, I guess about 10 years ago,

143

: 00:06:29

the whole millennial thing was a really

big, , point of contention, if you will.

144

: 00:06:33

So it was a hot topic,

145

: 00:06:34

in that session the conversation

navigated to what about millennials

146

: 00:06:38

and how are they changing buying?

147

: 00:06:40

And I felt it wasn't that I needed to

say anything, but I believe Scott said,

148

: 00:06:44

are there any millennials in the room?

149

: 00:06:46

And I was the only one other than two

vendors who were not there to talk, right?

150

: 00:06:52

They, they were just supporting.

151

: 00:06:53

I was the only one I stood up.

152

: 00:06:55

They said this and, because I

know Scott talked about this, too.

153

: 00:06:59

Erich Starrett: Yeah . You were

in episode one of season three.

154

: 00:07:03

Christopher Kingman: I think I I

recall I said something like this.

155

: 00:07:05

Millennials aren't special and we

don't need to be treated special.

156

: 00:07:08

I believe that then I believe now

we're no different than a generation.

157

: 00:07:11

And that was it.

158

: 00:07:11

It was the only thing I said, but for

some reason, I got a lot of praise

159

: 00:07:15

just for standing up and saying that I

don't, I didn't think it was a big deal.

160

: 00:07:19

, but just because I was the youngest

enablement person who opened their

161

: 00:07:21

mouth that carried me just a little

bit, the first conference , where I

162

: 00:07:26

could actually talk about the stuff

that I do and, hopefully demonstrate

163

: 00:07:29

I know what I'm talking about.

164

: 00:07:30

And my age has nothing to do with this.

165

: 00:07:33

Erich Starrett: I'm a believer.

166

: 00:07:34

And, honored to have you

here on the podcast, Chris.

167

: 00:07:38

So let's shift to the next one, What

of the founding positions, right?

168

: 00:07:43

And I don't need to tell you them..

169

: 00:07:45

But, , of the three and just for the

audience, I'll reiterate, position one

170

: 00:07:50

being sales enablement as a strategic

approach and there being different

171

: 00:07:54

flavors of it in the four primary areas

that were originally discussed back

172

: 00:07:58

in Palm beach, talent message., demand

management and administration where

173

: 00:08:03

the four kind of flavors of enablement

174

: 00:08:06

Position two, in order to accomplish

the mission sales enablement

175

: 00:08:11

needs to be chartered as a cross

functional business within a business.

176

: 00:08:16

To be effective.

177

: 00:08:17

And then finally, we're evolving to

something the aspirational state at the

178

: 00:08:21

time was chief productivity officer.

179

: 00:08:24

So of those three, which you're

clearly very familiar with and

180

: 00:08:26

might have even penned one of them.

181

: 00:08:29

Okay.

182

: 00:08:30

Which subgroup were you in of those three?

183

: 00:08:32

Do you even pay any attention

to those three anymore?

184

: 00:08:34

No, Where are we today?

185

: 00:08:36

Where are we going?

186

: 00:08:37

Christopher Kingman: I worked on

one of the projects, but I couldn't

187

: 00:08:39

tell you which one of those it

was, because it was so long ago.

188

: 00:08:43

, they're still relevant, but

they could also use an update.

189

: 00:08:46

I'll tell you, My stance on really

what the position for me is.

190

: 00:08:51

Erich Starrett: Okay,

191

: 00:08:51

Christopher Kingman: I believe that it

is - and should be - a strategic approach.

192

: 00:08:56

I've always loved eliminating friction.

193

: 00:08:58

I think that is for me - that's the

thing that I strive for the most.

194

: 00:09:02

I have teams that oversee

training and development.

195

: 00:09:04

We build.

196

: 00:09:05

All kinds of programs to help you upscale,

to help you be better at your job to

197

: 00:09:10

help you understand what you should be

doing based on your expectations and make

198

: 00:09:15

sure you get the most out of your tools.

199

: 00:09:18

At the end of the day, I view

sales as an organic conversation

200

: 00:09:21

between a customer and a seller.

201

: 00:09:23

An exchange that's based on value

and context and it has to be organic.

202

: 00:09:28

It can't be forced.

203

: 00:09:30

Everything else around that is

an opportunity for enablement to

204

: 00:09:34

improve and to reduce the friction.

205

: 00:09:36

I don't necessarily think chief

productivity officer is the

206

: 00:09:40

title I would align with, or

it resonates the most with me.

207

: 00:09:45

I don't know.

208

: 00:09:46

If you could collapse it into such

a concise thing, I used to call

209

: 00:09:50

it the chief director of traffic.

210

: 00:09:52

Erich Starrett: it's better than fixer of

broken things, stepping up strategically.

211

: 00:09:56

Christopher Kingman: Yep.

212

: 00:09:56

I don't like fixer broken things.

213

: 00:09:58

I don't like land misfit toys.

214

: 00:10:00

I think it mislabels what we do.

215

: 00:10:02

Erich Starrett: And I think those were

said in jest as that was the perception

216

: 00:10:06

of rather than, Hey, this is who we are.

217

: 00:10:09

It's people think we're

this, but we're so much more.

218

: 00:10:11

That's the impression I

get, but I wasn't there.

219

: 00:10:13

Christopher Kingman: Yeah, I

totally agree with you Erich.

220

: 00:10:15

I think that's.

221

: 00:10:16

we, we may be having that conversation

for another decade, right?

222

: 00:10:19

I think, when we talk about.

223

: 00:10:23

, where the position is going.

224

: 00:10:25

It's almost like it's the

person who removes all of the

225

: 00:10:28

roadblocks to revenue attainment.

226

: 00:10:30

Erich Starrett: I love that

227

: 00:10:31

Christopher Kingman: I like to

think about enablement and what

228

: 00:10:33

we do as to increase the ease of

buying and the ease of selling.

229

: 00:10:38

Erich Starrett: both.

230

: 00:10:39

Christopher Kingman: aligned to

those concepts, everything that we

231

: 00:10:41

do falls in one or two , buckets.

232

: 00:10:45

And I try to make it

as simple as possible.

233

: 00:10:47

Erich Starrett: So You want to

simultaneously reduce the friction from

234

: 00:10:53

both the inside out, but really leading.

235

: 00:10:57

- because I know you - leading

with the outside in, right?

236

: 00:11:00

Love that.

237

: 00:11:01

So on to four and you've already

brought up a few of these.

238

: 00:11:05

I'm gonna keep digging any good stories

that could be considered SES history.

239

: 00:11:11

Even RES.

240

: 00:11:12

It's been around six months There might be

some little nooks and crannies we haven't

241

: 00:11:17

heard of even in just that amount of time.

242

: 00:11:19

Or even lore, something that is

unknown to the larger community or

243

: 00:11:24

I love the millennial thing, I love

that you unpacked it further already.

244

: 00:11:27

Or maybe just something that

you haven't shared before

245

: 00:11:30

and you had a front row seat.

246

: 00:11:31

Christopher Kingman: The consistent

theme for me Over the history of the

247

: 00:11:36

society is that it is volunteer driven.

248

: 00:11:39

Everybody who I've ever engaged

with, that's part of it.

249

: 00:11:44

In some leadership capacity has a job

or two and they still find time to try

250

: 00:11:50

to elevate the profession in some way.

251

: 00:11:53

And, I would say everybody gave something.

252

: 00:11:56

Some people.

253

: 00:11:57

We're there for a long time.

254

: 00:11:58

Some weren't that long, but

I'm always impressed with, the

255

: 00:12:02

diversity in the walks of life

that say, hey, I want to help.

256

: 00:12:07

This means a lot to me.

257

: 00:12:08

This community means a lot to me.

258

: 00:12:10

I've gotten so much out of it , and

it doesn't have to be a person

259

: 00:12:14

in a leadership position that's

influenced a member . Members

260

: 00:12:17

learn from members all the time.

261

: 00:12:19

For me, it's always been.

262

: 00:12:20

The networking has always

been the real highlight.

263

: 00:12:22

The friendships that I've made, right?

264

: 00:12:24

,

I talk about Rob Peterson, but, , there's a dozen other folks that

265

: 00:12:27

I still connect with,, frequently.

266

: 00:12:29

And you get to meet new people

all the time and they're so

267

: 00:12:34

very talented and they're, they

have a different perspective.

268

: 00:12:37

The number of people I've met over

the years is just, it's astonishing.

269

: 00:12:40

I would not have met that many

people sitting in a singular

270

: 00:12:43

career, , the amount of friendships

I've built, I think those are great.

271

: 00:12:46

And the doors that it opens I don't

think I'm a podcaster, but I end up

272

: 00:12:50

on, a dozen or so a year just from

people's Hey so and so from this

273

: 00:12:55

place said to talk to you about this

thing, but cool let's have a chat.

274

: 00:12:59

the consulting opportunities that it's

opened, the endless amounts of, Hey,

275

: 00:13:04

I want to pick your brain about this

platform I'm building because I want to

276

: 00:13:08

know if people like you would buy it.

277

: 00:13:10

Stuff like that.

278

: 00:13:11

I've met so many smart and talented

people who are going to blow sales tech

279

: 00:13:16

out of the water in the next decade.

280

: 00:13:18

Just through networking and

just the relationships, they

281

: 00:13:22

end up, in my inbox and I'm so

excited to talk to these people.

282

: 00:13:26

Erich Starrett: I'll

put words in your mouth.

283

: 00:13:27

What a great poster child for that

community and how you are doing

284

: 00:13:32

that very thing right now as we

speak, as a matter of fact, right?

285

: 00:13:37

, so great answer.

286

: 00:13:38

And I too, I'm a big fan of

the amazing community I can't.

287

: 00:13:42

Put any kind of price tag on

the folks including yourself.

288

: 00:13:45

I've had the opportunity

to meet and learn from

289

: 00:13:48

Let's head on to the recent past back in

Ses still calling it that at the time exp

290

: 00:13:56

in sd san diego back in october It seems

like that was years ago at this point.

291

: 00:14:03

, the big announcement, ? We're evolving.

292

: 00:14:05

We're becoming the revenue

enablement society.

293

: 00:14:08

I loved how each member of the board

stood up, gave their personal take.

294

: 00:14:13

And so really, it would be great.

295

: 00:14:15

Maybe some of the folks in

the audience haven't heard.

296

: 00:14:18

What is your take on sales versus

revenue and kind of maybe give us even

297

: 00:14:23

a little bit more of a peek behind the

curtain on why you gave it the green

298

: 00:14:27

light and were all in as an advocate

299

: 00:14:30

?

Christopher Kingman: In: 2017

300

: 00:14:34

for a Forrester conference.

301

: 00:14:37

, and one of the questions is, what do I

think the evolution of enablement is?

302

: 00:14:40

And I said, drop the sales.

303

: 00:14:42

Sales enablement is a

self limiting term, right?

304

: 00:14:46

And it paints the perception that all

we do is help sales or enable sales.

305

: 00:14:51

As I've grown, across my

organization and the things that I

306

: 00:14:55

get exposed to and want to work on.

307

: 00:14:56

And as my team has grown, not all

of that is aligned to the frontline.

308

: 00:15:01

And although I'm a big proponent of you

should never lose sight of the frontline,

309

: 00:15:05

you should always have a relationship with

your sellers, with your sales leadership.

310

: 00:15:09

You should listen to their

calls if you can, you should

311

: 00:15:12

see them in action if you can.

312

: 00:15:14

I don't spend as much time with them.

313

: 00:15:16

I spend time with procurement and legal.

314

: 00:15:19

And as I was telling Erich before this

telephony engineering, these people don't

315

: 00:15:24

understand sales per se, or their needs

or the motions that they go through.

316

: 00:15:28

And as an enablement professional,

it's just as much my responsibility

317

: 00:15:31

to help the sellers, but also help

people in my organization understand

318

: 00:15:37

what supports the sellers, right?

319

: 00:15:40

At the end of the day, what, what

brings in the money that then

320

: 00:15:42

funds all of the investments?

321

: 00:15:44

It's sales.

322

: 00:15:44

It's not, doesn't materialize.

323

: 00:15:46

I don't know where we don't

engineer our way to a lot.

324

: 00:15:49

We don't, red line contracts

are to do a lot of money.

325

: 00:15:53

We sell stuff.

326

: 00:15:55

And anything that, gets in the

way or causes friction, right?

327

: 00:15:58

If we point backwards or impacts

productivity or people's, the, if it

328

: 00:16:03

makes it harder to buy or harder to sell.

329

: 00:16:06

I think somebody should have the

ability to, almost like the Patriot Act.

330

: 00:16:11

Hey, this is slowing us down.

331

: 00:16:13

I'm going to unpack this

and we're going to fix it.

332

: 00:16:15

I don't, there's very few things

I think should be off limits.

333

: 00:16:19

And as I've grown in my career.

334

: 00:16:21

The door is open to fixing larger

and broader issues that have largely

335

: 00:16:26

been sitting in silence, right?

336

: 00:16:28

And instead, look, when you look at

them holistically of how is this, break

337

: 00:16:32

in legal process impacting selling?

338

: 00:16:34

How is the break or how is the outdated

telephony system impacted selling?

339

: 00:16:39

What could happen for sales?

340

: 00:16:40

How can we enable sales

better if this is improved?

341

: 00:16:43

It's those questions that after sales

enablement fixes onboarding and skill

342

: 00:16:48

training and career pathing, And

gets them up and running and, gets

343

: 00:16:53

them through negotiation training.

344

: 00:16:55

What else are you going to do?

345

: 00:16:56

You need to go fix the

bigger, broader things.

346

: 00:16:59

I think that's where we're headed.

347

: 00:17:00

Certainly where I've been

headed and where I've been.

348

: 00:17:04

And so when it came time to vote on

that decision, there's no question.

349

: 00:17:09

Erich Starrett: I heard you call out some

of those flavors of enablement, right?

350

: 00:17:14

as we shift from sales Enablement to

revenue enablement of those four flavors

351

: 00:17:23

I think what you're saying is the talent

enablement bucket so to speak Of the

352

: 00:17:28

onboarding, the new hire ramp up the ever

boarding, the SKO ing all of those things

353

: 00:17:36

that are more in the talent development,

skills development, helping empowering

354

: 00:17:40

folks with message sales specifically of

the other buckets, the administration, the

355

: 00:17:46

marketing messaging, funnel management.

356

: 00:17:49

Which of those other domains or

flavors do you see being focused

357

: 00:17:53

on more through the lens of revenue?

358

: 00:17:56

Christopher Kingman:

That's a good question.

359

: 00:17:56

I think the talent, all the

components that you listed

360

: 00:17:59

under talent will be number one.

361

: 00:18:01

And that, wherever you are doing

enablement, if that's all you do and

362

: 00:18:06

You want to call it a sales enablement.

363

: 00:18:08

That's great.

364

: 00:18:09

I think where we're going is

that accepting our influence in

365

: 00:18:15

an organization should expand.

366

: 00:18:17

And the things that we should

tackle is going to get broader.

367

: 00:18:21

When we talk about the evolution

to revenue enabling, a lot of

368

: 00:18:25

the idea here is to help people

be better at those things.

369

: 00:18:29

That aren't discussed.

370

: 00:18:31

How do you get better

relationships with procurement?

371

: 00:18:34

What are procurement practices you

need to understand to be better

372

: 00:18:38

at sourcing sales tech, right?

373

: 00:18:41

Everybody knows you need a tech stack.

374

: 00:18:44

It's debatable what

goes in that tech stack.

375

: 00:18:47

No one talks about how do I navigate

buying one from my procurement department

376

: 00:18:51

when no one wants to fund this?

377

: 00:18:53

That's enablement, right?

378

: 00:18:54

Like I have to go and figure out who

I need to talk to and how to fund it.

379

: 00:18:58

And then I need to work with procurement.

380

: 00:19:00

To then figure out what exactly are

the internal mechanisms to do this?

381

: 00:19:05

It's not we picked name a platform.

382

: 00:19:08

We're good folks.

383

: 00:19:09

That's just the beginning.

384

: 00:19:10

That's not even the beginning.

385

: 00:19:11

That's the middle.

386

: 00:19:13

And so I think if you're thinking

about evolution of the practice, right?

387

: 00:19:16

Think about the evolution

of every process.

388

: 00:19:19

I do spend a lot of time

with my procurement team.

389

: 00:19:21

And they're fantastic people who just

want to educate me to make my job easier.

390

: 00:19:26

So I make their job easy, right?

391

: 00:19:28

For me, the collaboration and the

strategic nature and, breaking down

392

: 00:19:32

silos is something we've talked

about forever, and that is part

393

: 00:19:36

of the evolution of enablement.

394

: 00:19:38

It's a core component.

395

: 00:19:39

The , fifth (flavor) could be

silo breaker for all I care.

396

: 00:19:43

Cause I think that's,

it's an important aspect.

397

: 00:19:45

Like it's a requirement of

your job at this point to me.

398

: 00:19:49

Erich Starrett: And part of what

brought me all in on the inside sales

399

: 00:19:53

enablement podcast, first couple of

seasons to begin with , I love that

400

: 00:19:56

you said silo breaker the commercial

enablement orchestrator and that concept.

401

: 00:20:01

I was like, that's what I've been doing

my entire career, whether I was in field

402

: 00:20:05

marketing , or on the sales front lines

or in sales ops or effectiveness, I always

403

: 00:20:10

had this tendency to knock down some

silos more strategically than tactically.

404

: 00:20:14

So it sounds like the low hanging fruit

might actually be working with some

405

: 00:20:19

of the different functions internally.

406

: 00:20:21

Christopher Kingman: Yeah, it's

gonna be, it's gonna be organization

407

: 00:20:23

dependent whether demand management

is number one for you, right?

408

: 00:20:28

Because that whole sales marketing

getting along thing that we've

409

: 00:20:32

talked about for years some people

have gotten it figured out, right?

410

: 00:20:35

I don't think it's gonna

be cats and dogs forever.

411

: 00:20:38

I have a great relationship, my

marketing department, they're awesome

412

: 00:20:41

people and they totally get what I

need, but that was not always the case.

413

: 00:20:46

Before this call started, Erich and I

were talking about the latest Gartner

414

: 00:20:50

report on their fresh take on enablement

and it's all around driving behavior.

415

: 00:20:55

If you take that framework

and you say, okay, I need to

416

: 00:20:59

change a seller's behavior.

417

: 00:21:00

Here's what I need to do.

418

: 00:21:02

Think about your person in

procurement, your person in it.

419

: 00:21:04

Are they rewarded for certain behaviors?

420

: 00:21:08

How are they compensated?

421

: 00:21:09

Probably have no idea, right?

422

: 00:21:11

You don't deal with engineer

compensation models.

423

: 00:21:14

They may not be incentivized to

do anything outside of their silo.

424

: 00:21:20

but I guarantee you, if you

went to them and you said, hey.

425

: 00:21:24

This process doesn't work.

426

: 00:21:25

Would you mind if I helped you fix it?

427

: 00:21:27

You're probably going to

get a pretty warm reception.

428

: 00:21:30

Step in.

429

: 00:21:31

Say, we want to make this better because

it does impact revenue down the line.

430

: 00:21:37

Without being forceful and without

people telling people that they're

431

: 00:21:40

terrible at what they do there's always

a, tactful way to say this doesn't work.

432

: 00:21:45

We need to make it better.

433

: 00:21:46

And, Leverage age old mechanisms,

executive sponsorship, go to the CRO.

434

: 00:21:51

Hey, this is not working.

435

: 00:21:52

And here's the downstream impact.

436

: 00:21:54

If we fix this goes away today.

437

: 00:21:56

Tomorrow, this is possible, right?

438

: 00:21:58

They're simple conversations.

439

: 00:21:59

You're applying the same

level of behavior, modeling or

440

: 00:22:03

defining on different functions.

441

: 00:22:05

It's no different.

442

: 00:22:06

We need to fix something, or

we need to optimize something.

443

: 00:22:11

it just not maybe the very next

step to revenue recognition, right?

444

: 00:22:15

It may be two steps

down the line, or three.

445

: 00:22:17

Erich Starrett: To your point, since it's

not revenue generating, maybe the first

446

: 00:22:21

click, how do you track that metric?

447

: 00:22:24

And some of that's going to be a little

esoteric, but it's going to land in

448

: 00:22:29

a , adept customer facing frontline.

449

: 00:22:32

Christopher Kingman: Back to

the talent comment, right?

450

: 00:22:34

Those are your big rocks.

451

: 00:22:35

Those probably are your priority, and

chances are if you're in enablement,

452

: 00:22:39

you were hired to focus on them.

453

: 00:22:41

It's table stakes, right?

454

: 00:22:42

And I would, I'd caution you don't move

on to engaging with procurement until

455

: 00:22:47

you figure out new hire onboarding

456

: 00:22:48

Erich Starrett: right

457

: 00:22:49

Christopher Kingman: You can't build,

can't build a castle by stacking pebbles.

458

: 00:22:52

You're going to have to

bring in some big rocks.

459

: 00:22:55

It may not seem like the biggest priority,

460

: 00:22:57

but I have to assume that if

you are a competent enablement

461

: 00:23:01

professional, eventually you will

figure out all of the components.

462

: 00:23:04

And if you prove that they work, typically

that'll help you secure investment.

463

: 00:23:08

If you're semi articulate about,

we did this thing, brought in this

464

: 00:23:11

money, give me more investment.

465

: 00:23:13

I'll bring in more people.

466

: 00:23:13

We'll do more things, bring in more money.

467

: 00:23:16

Eventually you're going to get that

stuff figured out and it's, you're

468

: 00:23:19

going to need to go fix something else.

469

: 00:23:21

So why not prepare for

that day instead of.

470

: 00:23:26

Saying it's I'm never going to do that

or it's never, it's never going to happen

471

: 00:23:29

if you're really good at enablement,

chances are you're going to get

472

: 00:23:33

the reputation of somebody A can

fix things or B is strategic and

473

: 00:23:39

can orientate the organization

in the direction they need to go.

474

: 00:23:43

. Erich Starrett: You're making the pivot

from reactive to proactive . And back to

475

: 00:23:47

the Gartner report we were discussing,

they're basically leading with the new

476

: 00:23:50

mandate is be in at the chief strategy

officer, just in general, at the

477

: 00:23:55

corporate strategy level and have that

next couple of things, slay that first

478

: 00:23:59

dragon, crush it, get on everyone's radar.

479

: 00:24:02

And that dragon is probably

going to be talent enablement.

480

: 00:24:05

And then have that strategic.

481

: 00:24:07

And next we're going here and here.

482

: 00:24:08

And have the eyeballs of the executive

suite watching you through that lens.

483

: 00:24:13

Oh, talk about elevating

the profession, right?

484

: 00:24:17

Christopher Kingman: You got to

sway hearts, minds, and metrics,

485

: 00:24:19

you got to make sure that people

know that you can help them.

486

: 00:24:21

You got to show people you care

about their success, and then

487

: 00:24:25

you got to move the needle.

488

: 00:24:27

And that's, I think that's the foundation

for enablement success sales or not.

489

: 00:24:32

Erich Starrett: New t shirt.

490

: 00:24:33

Swaying hearts, minds, and

metrics one executive at a time.

491

: 00:24:38

We've done a such awesome past.

492

: 00:24:40

Thanks again.

493

: 00:24:41

So in the present what attribute or aspect

of enablement are you most passionate?

494

: 00:24:49

You shared the volunteering.

495

: 00:24:51

You shared the Emblaze , I'm

really excited to see what y'all

496

: 00:24:54

are doing at the top so that we

can implement that out here in the

497

: 00:24:58

chapters as we partner with our peers

498

: 00:25:00

Christopher Kingman: As I mentioned

at the beginning, I'm on the

499

: 00:25:03

advisory board for Emblaze.

500

: 00:25:05

I've, it's been, I've been

honored to be involved with

501

: 00:25:07

that organization for years now.

502

: 00:25:09

They are a great group of

people that truly care about

503

: 00:25:12

sellers and sales success.

504

: 00:25:15

So I think they're all just

enablement folks at heart.

505

: 00:25:18

Two years ago I joined, I joined their

sales transformation executive forum.

506

: 00:25:23

If you are a seller listening to this,

and if you are a sales leader or a CRO, I

507

: 00:25:26

definitely recommend you check them out.

508

: 00:25:28

It's CROs from very large sales

organizations and they would bring

509

: 00:25:32

their problems to the table, or new

research would be presented and it

510

: 00:25:35

would be interpreted and more and more.

511

: 00:25:39

The impression, was that

these aren't sales problems.

512

: 00:25:42

These are enablement problems.

513

: 00:25:43

And I went to their

executive retreat, which.

514

: 00:25:46

Probably one of my

favorite conferences ever.

515

: 00:25:49

Big heads of sales, big organizations.

516

: 00:25:51

Vendors were all there and it's three days

of whiteboarding and solving problems.

517

: 00:25:55

And I had a fantastic experience helping

people navigate their challenges.

518

: 00:26:01

And they were talking about onboarding

and training and upscaling and

519

: 00:26:04

how to pick a methodology, right?

520

: 00:26:08

I don't think these are sales

manager challenges anymore.

521

: 00:26:11

There are concerns for sure, but

I don't think you should task

522

: 00:26:14

your sales leaders to solve these.

523

: 00:26:16

I think that's what enablement is for, to

free up your sales leaders, to go do what

524

: 00:26:20

they need to do, coach sellers and sell.

525

: 00:26:23

And at one of the summits, I think

two years ago, I, got some time

526

: 00:26:27

with the leadership team from

AAISP now Emblaze, and I said, I

527

: 00:26:31

think this is what you need to do.

528

: 00:26:33

We need an enablement thing.

529

: 00:26:35

And a year later, they added an

enablement track to their summit,

530

: 00:26:38

and it was the most attended, most

requested track, and it was great.

531

: 00:26:41

The summit was great.

532

: 00:26:43

Huge turnout . I got to

present, I had a blast.

533

: 00:26:46

And, now this year, RES and Emblaze

have partnered, and this is all

534

: 00:26:52

around this concept that Your

enablement person and your CRO are

535

: 00:26:57

two sides of the same coin, right?

536

: 00:26:59

They need to be joined at the hip,

in lockstep, they need to be in tune.

537

: 00:27:03

If you're an enablement person and

you are not the most strategic, and

538

: 00:27:07

that's totally okay, you should be

partnering with your CRO to help fill

539

: 00:27:11

in the gaps of your strategy, right?

540

: 00:27:14

And if you're a CRO and you are

bogged down with all of these

541

: 00:27:18

things, how do I train people?

542

: 00:27:19

How do I coach them?

543

: 00:27:20

I don't have this.

544

: 00:27:20

I don't have that.

545

: 00:27:22

Where do I get a tech stack from?

546

: 00:27:24

You need to go and find

yourself an enablement person.

547

: 00:27:26

And my dream for this event was bring

those people together and put them in

548

: 00:27:30

a room and whiteboard their problems,

549

: 00:27:32

cROs, come on in, bring

all your challenges.

550

: 00:27:35

From I don't know what enablement is,

to how do I put together a business

551

: 00:27:38

case, to how do I figure out what

content management piece I need,

552

: 00:27:42

get it in there and have them hash it out.

553

: 00:27:44

Have these leaders see

the value of enablement.

554

: 00:27:46

For enablement people and practitioners,

go to the event and meet CROs.

555

: 00:27:50

I want to put people in jobs.

556

: 00:27:53

It's very important, especially

in our industry, we've definitely

557

: 00:27:55

been impacted by the layoffs.

558

: 00:27:57

So many folks that I know are open

to work, and that's unfortunate.

559

: 00:28:01

Because I think enablement can

conquer market conditions when

560

: 00:28:06

it's applied, but sometimes those

choices aren't really in the hands

561

: 00:28:10

of practitioners, the, from the top

down, it's cut, cut, cut, save money.

562

: 00:28:15

And they're impacted and it's unfortunate.

563

: 00:28:18

And so let's get you in front

of sales leaders, let's network,

564

: 00:28:21

let's let them see your value.

565

: 00:28:23

And hopefully that will

turn into something.

566

: 00:28:25

And I think this is just

the beginning, right?

567

: 00:28:27

Certainly, I'll be there, trying

to talk to everybody as possible.

568

: 00:28:31

President Gail Behun will be there.

569

: 00:28:32

We're doing a panel

together how to speak CRO.

570

: 00:28:36

There'll be a lot of other enablement

practitioners and presenters there.

571

: 00:28:39

I think it's going to be an amazing

experience and I think this is

572

: 00:28:42

the beginning of something great.

573

: 00:28:44

And, shameless plug for the event.

574

: 00:28:45

It's April 2nd through 4th,

just outside of Chicago.

575

: 00:28:50

It's in the same place every year.

576

: 00:28:52

I cannot stress enough,

especially, for sales leaders who

577

: 00:28:55

want to understand enablement.

578

: 00:28:57

I think this is the place

you need to go because you're

579

: 00:28:59

going to get the right info.

580

: 00:29:00

Erich Starrett: I there's

a Cracker Jack prize in this

581

: 00:29:02

episode for the first time ever.

582

: 00:29:04

That I can't wait to reveal that has

exactly to do with what you just shared

583

: 00:29:08

so let's go future We talked about

the possibility of this MBA in

584

: 00:29:15

Enablement, we talked about that a

little bit at SES experience, right?

585

: 00:29:22

In October.

586

: 00:29:23

Where are we at?

587

: 00:29:24

How quick is the future coming?

588

: 00:29:26

How soon will our children be at high

school and the career counselor's

589

: 00:29:30

going, you should be in enablement,

and here are the 15 universities

590

: 00:29:35

that you can go to get a degree.

591

: 00:29:37

Christopher Kingman: That

future cannot come soon enough.

592

: 00:29:39

I don't know if I'm doing an MBA

anytime soon, but we're developing

593

: 00:29:43

the first executive education program.

594

: 00:29:45

We recognize there is a

need for a few things.

595

: 00:29:49

one of my mission goals at

SES is to establish standards.

596

: 00:29:53

If you look at the Society of Automotive

Engineers, they have standards

597

: 00:29:56

for things like, why shouldn't we?

598

: 00:29:58

Now that can be tough because a lot

of what we do is very subjective,

599

: 00:30:02

but ultimately we're tied to metrics.

600

: 00:30:05

And there's, common themes,

best practices that can emerge.

601

: 00:30:08

If you compare 10 onboarding programs,

all 10 are going to be different, but

602

: 00:30:12

they can still contain the same things

that make up a good onboarding program.

603

: 00:30:16

It's educating people

on these things, right?

604

: 00:30:18

What do you need to look at?

605

: 00:30:20

How far and how wide can you go?

606

: 00:30:23

Enablement's great because you can

be an absolute expert at one thing.

607

: 00:30:28

I have a bunch of trainers on my

team and they're very specialized.

608

: 00:30:32

And I have one guy who

just does sales tech.

609

: 00:30:34

So all he does is train on sales tech.

610

: 00:30:36

I have another person who does skills.

611

: 00:30:37

I have another person that does onboarding

and they are the masters of those things.

612

: 00:30:41

And it's amazing, but that doesn't

have to be your experience.

613

: 00:30:44

You can be.

614

: 00:30:45

A mile wide, an inch deep, you can get

exposure to everything because that'll

615

: 00:30:49

help you shape your organization, but also

focus on the things that either A, your

616

: 00:30:53

organization needs, or B, your passion.

617

: 00:30:56

And that's what we're trying to do.

618

: 00:30:57

We're working with a major,

university in the United States.

619

: 00:31:00

We're putting together a

very accessible program.

620

: 00:31:04

That covers what we believe to be, pretty

full spectrum of everything that's related

621

: 00:31:08

to enablement and what drives enablement.

622

: 00:31:11

And where you can focus your attention

and we're bringing in the right

623

: 00:31:14

people, the practitioners with the

backgrounds, the education to bring

624

: 00:31:18

forward best in class experiences

and best in class certification.

625

: 00:31:23

And we're working on an introductory,

beginner level certification, if you will.

626

: 00:31:27

. And in the advance, you're going to bring

forward a business case, just like a

627

: 00:31:30

capstone project, and you're going to go

through the program, learn what you need

628

: 00:31:36

to learn to then improve this thing, and

then present to a panel of expert judges.

629

: 00:31:41

We hope to launch this thing by

September of this year, because we

630

: 00:31:45

want to bring a cohort of folks to the

experience, sales enablement experience.

631

: 00:31:50

In October to talk about the value, right?

632

: 00:31:54

We want to make sure that the vendors

in our space, the participants,

633

: 00:31:57

practitioners, the leaders all know

that we're putting our name on this

634

: 00:32:01

and saying this is the education.

635

: 00:32:02

This is the certificate.

636

: 00:32:04

Erich Starrett: Couldn't

be too soon, Chris.

637

: 00:32:06

Thank you for all your efforts in that.

638

: 00:32:09

And you want to talk about

elevating the profession, you

639

: 00:32:11

start with education, right?

640

: 00:32:14

It's talent development,

you might say, of ourselves.

641

: 00:32:18

Without further ado you ready?

642

: 00:32:20

Drum roll, please.

643

: 00:32:22

Affiliation with the 2024 Digital Now

Revenue Growth Summit in Chicagoland.

644

: 00:32:29

As Chris already shared, April second

to fourth, the must attend event of

645

: 00:32:34

Digital First Revenue Leaders, , with a

session about how to talk CRO with Mr.

646

: 00:32:40

Kingman and Gail Behun.

647

: 00:32:42

Don't miss that one hosted by

Emblaze powered by corporate visions.

648

: 00:32:47

We have a coupon code for you for not

99, not 299, 395 dollars off off to our

649

: 00:33:01

inside sales enablement season three.

650

: 00:33:04

enablement history listening audience.

651

: 00:33:07

And what better timing than with a man

who embodies in so many ways the past

652

: 00:33:13

and present and future of enablement.

653

: 00:33:15

Chris, I can't wait to see you

face to face again in Chicagoland.

654

: 00:33:20

And thanks again, and

you get the final word.

655

: 00:33:23

What's the parting shot?.

656

: 00:33:24

Christopher Kingman: The future of

enablement continues to be bright.

657

: 00:33:28

I will encourage everybody to lean

into the evolution of the trade

658

: 00:33:32

of the practice, open yourself to

leaning into the evolution of your own

659

: 00:33:36

skills, your development, your careers

660

: 00:33:39

we've come a long way as an organization

as a, a career, if you will to being,

661

: 00:33:45

loosely organized and a loose set

of skills to very organized and

662

: 00:33:48

things are only getting better.

663

: 00:33:49

I only hope to elevate the profession and

expand awareness, to a different audience

664

: 00:33:55

and a different set of folks that will

really value and benefit from what we do.

665

: 00:33:59

And I think we're gonna make great

strides towards that this year.

666

: 00:34:04

Erich Starrett: Outstanding.

667

: 00:34:04

With volunteers like you and

the volunteers around the world

668

: 00:34:08

that are driving the RES and the

combination with Emblaze, all of

669

: 00:34:13

that's possible and then some.

670

: 00:34:15

I'm all in.

671

: 00:34:17

Thanks again, Mr.

672

: 00:34:18

Kingman, , and thanks to

everyone for listening in.

673

: 00:34:21

Christopher Kingman: Thank you, Erich.

674

: 00:34:22

Thank you, everybody.

675

: 00:34:23

Erich Starrett: Pleasure.